Author Topic: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship  (Read 11807 times)

Offline SupremeVoid

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #60 on: March 14, 2014, 06:34:00 PM »
Really nice work there.

Are you going to texture it too?
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Offline MajorD

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #61 on: March 29, 2014, 02:05:02 PM »
Your Bird of Prey-oid looks great.

Here's one thing which always bothered me with the Kling ships: why is it that the larger ships never carried turrets using the guns off a Bird of Prey? Doesn't it stand to reason the larger ships would carry either more, or bigger guns, and preferably in a way which is even more flexible?  Sure, the guns could be internally mounted, and have some sort of super flexible emitter directing the energy outside, but that's kind of boring. Also, if that can be done, why aren' the huge main guns, presumably in the bow, equipped with similar flex emitters, so the firing arcs are better placed to cover more of the ship?

The Neg'Var does kind of follow the Bird of Prey, if we assume the huge weapons under the hull are disruptors. But, then I have to wonder, why didn't they sacrifice a little hull performance, and place the guns vertically, one top, one bottom, for 360 coverage? Or, it could have been in a superfire kind of arrangement.

Offline KrrKs

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #62 on: March 29, 2014, 05:14:34 PM »
If i remember correctly, the original Negh'Var/ Voodieh-ships from AGT only used their neck mounted beam disruptor turrets to bring the Pasteur down.
So i guess even klingon ships do have turrets, they are just so small to not be normally visible and are almost never used because VFX is costly Klingons like the bigger guns better

Offline Sheva

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #63 on: March 29, 2014, 07:19:56 PM »
VFX is costly

Like the phaser firing from the torpedo launcher of the Ent-D? In the end, we can make what we think is right in terms of game logic and take the screen evidence just as a hint and less as a holy grail. There are many obvious errors seen in the show and we can just "correct" them. I don't think that this is a problem.
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Offline MajorD

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #64 on: March 30, 2014, 03:09:00 AM »
Like the phaser firing from the torpedo launcher of the Ent-D? In the end, we can make what we think is right in terms of game logic and take the screen evidence just as a hint and less as a holy grail. There are many obvious errors seen in the show and we can just "correct" them. I don't think that this is a problem.
For all the wrongness of that firing scene, it's also one of the single best looking phaser firings in the entire series. :)

Offline Statius

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #65 on: April 08, 2014, 07:18:48 AM »
A few years ago I did do an overview of the possible weapon emplacements on the Negh'Var and Vor'Cha. On the former it was upwards of 20, going from AGT,  and the Vor'Cha is at least 23.



Thank you for the use of the pictures MajorD!

PART II: Extrapolation from model and production evidence; relationship to the screen evidence.


I'd like to begin by looking at the production sketch of the Negh'Var/Voodieh. As Lewis mentioned above,it notes the location of the weapons on the Voodieh.



It marks the 'phaser emitters', the 'outboard' disruptor cannons, and the main disruptor cannon.
The so-called 'phaser emitters' are the trapezoidal structures which line the edge of the 'head', number ten in total, and there are two on the aft section, visible from the top.

This image shows what Sternbach means by 'phaser trapezoids:



And again we can see these emitters in with the distinct yellow paint job in the this shot of the Voodieh:



And the same concept with the Vor'Cha, the trapezoidal shape is clearly visible:



And on the rear. I've circled the emitters:



Besides this, the location of the main disruptor cannon and the two cannons on the wingtips (presuming they are not two on each wing, which is possible if we look closely at the model) are obvious, and we end up with fifteen disruptors on the AGT version, and the two more, totalling seventeen large disruptors on the Negh'Var proper:


 
This is all fine and well but if we recall the images from AGT above, two individual weapons are not accounted for, the port 'neck' disruptor and the ventral aft section disruptor. Nor is the odd beam from Endgame accounted for. We are forced to look a little deeper into the models. This will actually reveal more than we are looking for. I will post about this next.

Now we are going to have to get a little speculative, but this is necessary. We are looking for any weapon emplacements on the neck and ventral section. Thankfully there are many good pictures from the Christie's auction, and the Negh'Var has been captured beautifully.

First let's look at the weapons in question in action:



The neck cannon seems to be just below the aft end of the tall section of the neck. Not much is visible on the AGT model:



No visible weapon, hardly any discernible bumps or greebles, besides the sensors which happen to be farther to the front, let alone any yellow trapezoids. So let's turn to the Negh'Var model:



Notice that there are boxes with notches, one of which is perhaps in the appropriate spot for the port neck disruptor. These notches do stick out a little:

.

If this is indeed the case we might count all of these notches, three per side, two aft of the cargo bay door, one fore. There are also notches, albeit slightly different and yellow (the original colour of the disruporemitters) two facing forward, and perhaps two facing rear boxes with grey notches.



The 'phaser trapezoids' are now grey on this updated model, but and whole model seems to be more detailed, although it may simply be lighting. There are however more yellow notches and panels on the model as can be seen all along the model. Should we count some of these as disruptors too? They fore yellow notches on the wing look quite 'intentional' and are elevated on a slightly larger panel of body colour; they are meant to have some prominence. Let us count those in. The large yellow panels differ in shape, they are square rather than rectangular, and do not protrude as far as the larger emitters, nor as far as the smaller 'neck' and wing notches. Let's rule them out. But what of these:



As said in the picture, the bridge notches are very similar in shape to, if not the same as, the neck notches. Some of these notches along the vertical plane of the head are also longer, like the emitters immediately above them. They could be sensors, communication arrays or any other system, but given the similarity to what is our best estimate for the neck cannon from AGT, we can reasonably count them in as emitters, if we are looking for a maximum weapon count. Moreover, they do sport the yellow of the AGT weapons, which may be a hint, though hardly proof.

Alongside these numerous small disruptors emitters, if they are such are also other, more traditional weapon systems, four twin-disruptor cannons. The first two are generally well known:



The second two I recently discovered hiding under the bridge tower:



Of the weapons counted in this round, apart from the seventeen counted in the previous post we can count, at the upper limit two large twin disruptor cannons, two small twin disruptor cannons, ten small disruptor emitters on the neck and wings and aft, four small disruptor emitters on the bridge module (there are more yellow notches but they are smaller and more irregular), and perhaps four small emitters on the vertical plane of the head's 'crest'. That gives us twenty single small emplacements, eight twin-emplacement of the 'older' style, as a reasonable upper limit.



A total, so far of 45 weapon emplacements, 53 if we count the twin-disruptors as two.

Tomorrow, in a final installment I will looks at the ventral weapons
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Offline Sheva

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #66 on: April 08, 2014, 08:04:50 AM »
I don't know what to think about the "phaser strips" on the klingon ships - in my opinion, they could be called beam disruptor arrays. Maybe the disruptor for the klingon version is more like a focus array that does not hold all the power from every grid emitter like phasers do, but draws the required energy directly from the weapon capacitor, which may explain, why they are so tiny. If they would be phasers, their power would be so small and the range so short, that there is next to no practical use for these.
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Offline Statius

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #67 on: April 08, 2014, 09:27:11 AM »
On the contrary, like the phaser banks of old they would have the majority of the power structure within, but unlike turrets they, as with phaser arrays, would be nearly omni-directional and without the mechanical limitations. That is, at least, how I see it.
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Offline KrrKs

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #68 on: April 08, 2014, 04:07:31 PM »
Maybe the disruptor for the klingon version is more like a focus array that does not hold all the power from every grid emitter like phasers do, but draws the required energy directly from the weapon capacitor, which may explain, why they are so tiny. If they would be phasers, their power would be so small and the range so short, that there is next to no practical use for these.

On the contrary, like the phaser banks of old they would have the majority of the power structure within, but unlike turrets they, as with phaser arrays, would be nearly omni-directional and without the mechanical limitations. That is, at least, how I see it.

Considering the role of the Negh'Var, it's size and manoeuvrability (or lack thereof) some small, fast tracking anti- warhead/fighter/frigate weapons seem reasonable. They wouldn't even need to be that powerful.

-But considering that the AGT Voodies destroyed the Pasteur using only/mainly these support weapons, they seem to be pretty powerful (dps wise) (-not surprising for a Klingon ship). AFAIK they fired pretty fast (fits with their purpose), so each single shot does not need to be strong. Fast recharging capacitors also wouldn't need to be that large -as long as they have a sufficient power supply.

Overall I concur with Statius.

in my opinion, they could be called beam disruptor arrays.
Yeah, I would also call them that.
->Was there ever an answer to what the difference between 'phasers' and 'disruptors' is? (We have beam disruptors that look like phasers and pulse phasers that look like disruptors)

Offline Sheva

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #69 on: April 08, 2014, 06:29:29 PM »
Yes, you both got it right I think. The small disruptor arrays combine the advantage of having a small size with still having reasonable power (as the power source is not the emitter itself to load from but the main weapon capacitor) and the disruptor array is just as big enough to enable the array to be similar firing-angle friendly as the phaser banks.

The damage would mainly be delivered via dps and while a single disruptor array got a long reload-time, the massive amount of emitters outbalances this and frees up weapon fire for different purposes, like anti-fighter shots, point defense or support fire, while the main cannons reap their scythe through the grass called "feds". :D
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Offline Statius

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #70 on: July 07, 2017, 01:18:37 AM »
Getting Back into this:

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Offline Luke

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #71 on: July 07, 2017, 04:57:44 PM »
Looks great! Loving the engine cluster and the curvature into the nacelles.

Looks like it's based off the vorcha - are you planning on making some pods? Sensor/ weapons/ ground teams etc...

Offline Statius

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #72 on: July 08, 2017, 04:38:16 AM »
Looks great! Loving the engine cluster and the curvature into the nacelles.

Looks like it's based off the vorcha - are you planning on making some pods? Sensor/ weapons/ ground teams etc...

Luke,

Yes! I have two a number of variants. The design is meant to be a testbed for technologies that would come to be used in the Vor'cha. It is smaller ~350m. I have a whole history sketched out for it. Basically, while the Vor'cha, K'tinga, B'Rel, and K'Vort were used for interacting with the Feds (because the Vor'Cha is impressive to their Fed allies and the others are less advanced since force was largely unnecessary vs. these same allies) this class (as yet unnamed) was sufficiently advanced while not as much as an investment as the Vor'cha to place on the Romulan border. In essence, it is an unseen workhorse and thus unseen in Trek media ;) .
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Offline Statius

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #73 on: July 22, 2017, 03:14:03 AM »


Just about done. A new head here too.
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Offline Statius

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #74 on: July 26, 2017, 08:24:15 PM »
Well, here it is, a completed first draft of the VoQ'chlm Heavy Battle Cruiser, the prime variant

From the fore, you will see the standard "head" pod, obviously drawn from the D7/K't'inga line.  Nothing fancy. The command module, sensors, and four of the six disruptor emitters (the little trapezoids) are visible. Nav-deflector sits at the front of the neck. Inset along the side of the neck are more sensors/scanners. Under the wing, you can see the disruptor cannon poking out; it is not much more than a little protrusion.



From the aft, you will see the engine block, with my "old-style" impulse engines (I have made another style for the later variants). Between the engines, you will see the shuttle bay and above the shuttle bay, the aft torpedo tube. Flanking the engine block are the aft disruptor emitter mounts, inset slightly in the wings.

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Offline Statius

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #75 on: July 26, 2017, 08:30:46 PM »
And a taste of what is to come...

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Offline Statius

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #76 on: July 28, 2017, 05:35:55 AM »
I wrote a longer post but lost it. So here is the abbreviated version.

This is the VoQ'chlm stealth-command variant. It is designed to operate behind enemy (Romulan) lines and hunt cloaked vessels. The head module seen here is dedicated to long range communication without the assistance of subspace relays (or farther away from them) and to communicate undetected with cloaked vessels of its squadron. This comes at the cost of firepower, reducing disruptor emitters from six to four and trading the torpedo tube and magazine for a heavy disruptor cannon.



Amidships a command module has been installed with strong active scanners for identifying traces of cloaked vessels or detecting vessels at long range quickly to avoid counter-detection. Immediately behind it sits a tactical communications suite to intercept communications and even intrude enemy electronics through intercepted communications.



Notice also the large passive sensor array that sits above the engine block, sacrificing armour to do so. The standard radiator grilles have been replaced with signature dampening radiators, less efficient and difficult to maintain, and thus a standard radiator was built into the armoured superstructure of the secondary hull. The tradeoffs in armour and firepower underwrite a more vital element in the duel between cloaked vessels: the ability to make the decisive strike.

Note: this variant has the updated engines.
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Offline newhalo123

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #77 on: July 28, 2017, 06:07:55 AM »
It's looking great!  :thumbsup
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Offline Statius

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #78 on: July 28, 2017, 10:27:26 AM »
For those of you interested in the technical side, these are each one mesh. When I started this ship around four years ago it consisted of multiple objects. When I restarted this project a month ago my goal was to get the mesh unified. I am pleased with the results. I also significantly remodeled the secondary hull and beveled several edges. Each model is between 24,000-30,000 tris.
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Offline QuickSilver

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Re: WIP: Early 24th century Klingon Battleship
« Reply #79 on: August 09, 2017, 07:33:39 PM »
Will you also be designing ship interiors of your Klingon Vessel as well?

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