Interior & Exterior Gameplay Integration

[Mark]

Interior & Exterior Gameplay Integration by Mark

Chris Larkin asks: I would love to hear more about how you're going to integrate third person starship combat with walking around in your own vessel/other places.


A Point of Reference

Excalibur was born from the Bridge Commander modding community and as such we have to start there as a point of reference for the style of gameplay we want to create. Bridge Commander’s gameplay was primarily focused on space combat and in practice the player spent most of their time playing the game in this mode because it was the best for combat. The interior view of the game was best used for cutscenes and dialogues within the single player mode but didn't offer much real playability.

Interestingly enough the first person element of Bridge Commander was originally intended to have more scope, with the player able to move between points of view on the bridge and members of the crew even getting injured during combat. I’m pleased to say that after some time the modding community managed to surpass even that by allowing the player to move around the bridge as they willed. Unfortunately even after this the interior mode of the game offered little reason to engage with it because, quite simply, there was nothing to do on the bridge that you couldn't do from the exterior view.

Making it Worthwhile

Given that Bridge Commander’s interior mode was something of a damp squib outside of single player mode I guess it is a little surprising that we all wanted to include it again for Excalibur. We felt it brought a sense of immersion to the game that made it more than worthwhile so long as the player had a reason to engage with it. To do this effectively we simply had to think about everything that the captain had to sit it out for, particularly those occasions where the player was waiting for something to happen rather then being engaged by the game.

If your ship is seriously damaged in Bridge Commander you are quite often left drumming your fingers while the ship automatically regenerates after a battle. In Excalibur you can get your hands dirty in engineering helping out with repairs in order to get the ship operational again.

If you want to board an enemy ship in Bridge Commander you simply have to transport some men over and hope for the best. In Excalibur you could always choose to operate the transporter to get the men directly on the bridge, or even lead the boarding party yourself.

Just to be clear, our goal isn’t to make it so that you can do anything and everything on a ship but rather to let the player get involved so that you are never forced to wait around for the game to simulate something that you could be playing yourself.

Gameplay Structure

The bridge is all-important in Excalibur, if you want to take direct command of a starship through the space view the player’s character must be on the bridge. From your bridge, whether you are in the interior or exterior view, you can issue orders to the different command staff to access the high level functionality of their stations through your user interface. If this level of detail isn’t enough for you or if there is no one at that station you can go over to the console yourself and use it directly.

A good example of this would be navigation; if you wanted to navigate to a star system you could just issue a command to the helm officer and they will lay in a course. Alternatively, if you wanted more control over the angle of your approach in order to avoid enemy sensors, you could walk over to the console and plot a course yourself.

When you leave the bridge you hand command over to your first officer or the highest ranking officer left on the bridge. From this point on you can issue your commands to them through your communicator but you will not have direct command over the ship until you return to the bridge.

[sman789]

That sounds really cool - especially having the choice of controlling the ship yourself or giving orders to officers. Sounds like players who want to can make the gameplay quite technical

[Zero]

When you leave the bridge you hand command over to your first officer or the highest ranking officer left on the bridge. From this point on you can issue your commands to them through your communicator but you will not have direct command over the ship until you return to the bridge.

This leaves open even more the possibility of being able to "level up" the bridge staff with experience and having that be an integral and important part of the game. The better they got, the better their AI would perform, or have other bonuses. So, you could give up direct command to your highly experienced Second, and know that the ship would be fighting well while you dealt with other matters.

I dunno, but to me I see a vast amount of potential for some cool game elements and immersion. I don't remember if you guys have already talked about that aspect or kicked around those ideas, but I personally would find it an awesome level of depth to increase the importance of the bridge and crew.

Permanent deaths, and or the ability to recruit better officers would also add to this. Faced with solving a dilemma, would you want to risk going into a very dangerous head on space battle where members of your experienced bridge crew might get killed (and thus have to get new crew to train up and deal with), or find a more clever solution? That would really make me feel like a captain.

Just random thoughts!

I really like this update, and glad you aren't necessarily shoehorning the bridge in by making it cumbersomely important. Sounding amazing, guys!

[sman789]

Permanent deaths, and or the ability to recruit better officers would also add to this. Faced with solving a dilemma, would you want to risk going into a very dangerous head on space battle where members of your experienced bridge crew might get killed (and thus have to get new crew to train up and deal with), or find a more clever solution? That would really make me feel like a captain.

I don't think I'd like to have to take into account the possibility for permanent death of my officers during normal combat. Perhaps now and again you can send them on really dangerous away missions though (a little like in mass effect 2) where you can choose the best people to increase chance of success but risk loosing them if it fails.

It would be cool though, say on a Klingon or Dominion ship, if you could execute crew members for their mistakes. "You have failed me for the last time, helmsman"

[AricwithanA]

This is all great sounding to me.  I am one of those rare people that actually played bridge commander from bridge view for the most part.  I hated the space view and was a terrible navigator.  I generally let the AI fly for me and I just dealt with things on the bridge.  If I had to, I would move to space but I didn't care to.

If your ship is seriously damaged in Bridge Commander you are quite often left drumming your fingers while the ship automatically regenerates after a battle. In Excalibur you can get your hands dirty in engineering helping out with repairs in order to get the ship operational again.

Hell, I don't even NEED to be the captain.  Being a crewman, having a battle go on at time and me doing stuff elsewhere in the ship could keep me entertained for hours and hours.  Let alone doing all the normal stuff one might be doing.  Any leisure time would just me turning off the game.  lol 

With the type of integration of play style inside the ship, there might be a time to where going places, finding new things or just simply blowing something up could take a back seat to what I could be doing on the ship some place!

[Poseidon]

Hey Mark,

It seems that you are suggesting that the interior (bridge) is the focal point when the player wishes to do something from a first person stand point only when there is something to do.   Hmmm.  Seems driven to apply only what would be necessary for the Captain and what the Captain does.  Seems, most of the game play will take place as a 3rd person starship combat game.  2 dimensional IMO.  Need to see far past that IMO.  People want to feel as if they are an active force within the game, being at the center of what we have grown to love when we watch any star trek episode/movie.  3rd person star trek shooters are plentiful.  Bridge Commander, Legacy, Star Trek Online, and the list goes on and on.  People want the combat, but they want episodic content and the flexibility to explore!  The flexibility to command and crew a starship with many players.  The flexibility to adjust and accomplish as they go.  The flexibility to have others join them on the trek through the stars!  Even to repair and modify as they go.  Does ST:E go this far?  I think not.  From what I have seen and understand, ST:E will be Bridge Commander 2 with added features.  The theme seems to be the same.   That's ok.  A lot of people want that.  Just allow me to be able to mod far more than that.  It is all I ask, or I will go elsewhere where Trek fans can do what I speak of.  We have reached that level.  We need to create worlds that allow for this kind of game play.

[AricwithanA]

Hey Mark,

It seems that you are suggesting that the interior (bridge) is the focal point when the player wishes to do something from a first person stand point only when there is something to do.   Hmmm.  Seems driven to apply only what would be necessary for the Captain and what the Captain does.  Seems, most of the game play will take place as a 3rd person starship combat game.  2 dimensional IMO.  Need to see far past that IMO.  People want to feel as if they are an active force within the game, being at the center of what we have grown to love when we watch any star trek episode/movie.  3rd person star trek shooters are plentiful.  Bridge Commander, Legacy, Star Trek Online, and the list goes on and on.  People want the combat, but they want episodic content and the flexibility to explore!  The flexibility to command and crew a starship with many players.  The flexibility to adjust and accomplish as they go.  The flexibility to have others join them on the trek through the stars!  Even to repair and modify as they go.  Does ST:E go this far?  I think not.  From what I have seen and understand, ST:E will be Bridge Commander 2 with added features.  The theme seems to be the same.   That's ok.  A lot of people want that.  Just allow me to be able to mod far more than that.  It is all I ask, or I will go elsewhere where Trek fans can do what I speak of.  We have reached that level.  We need to create worlds that allow for this kind of game play.

So are you upset there is no multiplayer at this point?  You already know, from multiple sources, that the game itself will be fully moddable with a very robust engine you can tweak and adjust as you play.   You really have to see things in two perspectives.  There is ST:E The Game and then there is Evolved with assets from ST:E The Game.  Really, with an easy mod capabilities, the game the Team creates will go much farther than just the game they release.  I know I have a few personal ideas for basic modding to tailor the game to ME.  Hence the single player.  Multiplayer will come at some point in time, either officially or mod.  Yes, a lot of people want to play at each station, etc, etc..but let things be finished first and grow.

Even if ST:E isn't everything I wanted, we all have the ability to make it so.  That is the grand beauty of all of this and why I am happy to be working with the UI Development.  This might be one of the first games where you will be able play and interact with a game EXACTLY as you choose.  The Team is making their own game, you can't expect them to make everything for you specifically or anyone else like that.  Mod it.  Change it to your desires.  What more can gamer and Star Trek fan ask for? 

I'd ask for a tricorder personally.   

[MajorD]

What happens when I shoot my helmsman and pull him from his seat so I can take his console?

[AricwithanA]

What happens when I shoot my helmsman and pull him from his seat so I can take his console?

I want to know what Starfleet is going to think spacing intruders.  Write a script to auto target and transport any boarding party into space.  lol

[Poseidon]

So are you upset there is no multiplayer at this point?  You already know, from multiple sources, that the game itself will be fully moddable with a very robust engine you can tweak and adjust as you play.   You really have to see things in two perspectives.  There is ST:E The Game and then there is Evolved with assets from ST:E The Game.  Really, with an easy mod capabilities, the game the Team creates will go much farther than just the game they release.  I know I have a few personal ideas for basic modding to tailor the game to ME.  Hence the single player.  Multiplayer will come at some point in time, either officially or mod.  Yes, a lot of people want to play at each station, etc, etc..but let things be finished first and grow.

Even if ST:E isn't everything I wanted, we all have the ability to make it so.  That is the grand beauty of all of this and why I am happy to be working with the UI Development.  This might be one of the first games where you will be able play and interact with a game EXACTLY as you choose.  The Team is making their own game, you can't expect them to make everything for you specifically or anyone else like that.  Mod it.  Change it to your desires.  What more can gamer and Star Trek fan ask for? 

I'd ask for a tricorder personally.   

I think you have miss understood the post.  And, you have not read my previous posts.  I AM GOING TO MOD ALL I HAVE SAID.  The post is a reflection of what the team will do, and by contrast, what I will mod.  I am going to tackle MP, along with all of the extras I have envisioned.  The point of my previous post was that there were many Star Trek games out there that are 3rd person shooters.  In fact, my all time favorite is the Star Fleet Command series.  Bridge Commander is also up there along with Legacy.  But that is 3rd person.  Again my point being a first person viewed as we see in the movies and series.  Cut scenes would be the 3rd person view with respect to the situation.  Just 3rd person, at least to me, has been done (literally) to death.  That is my point of view.  I made that clear.  So, while 3rd person starship combat is great, there are things that can be done to move the genre forward.  That was, again, my point. 

It sounds like, from what Mark has said, they will implement some ship board functions into the game as well.  I said this sounds like Bridge Commander 2 with a simple interior game structure.  So, they are going to delve a little into what I have in mind, but this needs to move past that and into a more immersive game play structure.  That is what intend to mod. 

Personal items, like tricorders and other small objects, would have to be dome by another mod.  I can attempt to tackle that as well, but I am focused on the starship systems and there functions with respect to the game at hand. 

That, and along with MP capability, that is quite a bit of work to do.  I am restricted by not knowing the coding structure of the game.  Yes, we know it's in Python (an older scripting language) and has a series of HP's that are set into the ships structure.  That's it.  Not a lot to go on ATM.  Once I see how they set up and tag the scripts (ship systems, ect.) then I can finally proceed.  Until then, I just have to wait and see.

I have the structure for my demo done, but need to work on the actual scripting for that, and that is put on hold ATM.  I have many other projects I am now working on.  We are looking at a few months before the demo is ready.  This demo will be a concept of the detail you will have with ship system functions and interactions with them.

[Poseidon]

What happens when I shoot my helmsman and pull him from his seat so I can take his console?

Ha Ha,

Your crew would place you under arrest.  Have you drawn and quartered.  The XO would take command, and set course for the nearest starbase.  That would be an automatic end to your carrier. 

I would not attempt to mod something like that.  The intricacies of your carrier would be something to model for the game, but my hands are full.  You could try that D.  Do you need something to do?

[Poseidon]

I want to know what Starfleet is going to think spacing intruders.  Write a script to auto target and transport any boarding party into space.  lol

I have a set up for intruder systems.  It does include an intra transporting intruder systems.  Funny you should mention that.

[AricwithanA]

I think you have miss understood the post.  And, you have not read my previous posts.  I AM GOING TO MOD ALL I HAVE SAID.  The post is a reflection of what the team will do, and by contrast, what I will mod.  I am going to tackle MP, along with all of the extras I have envisioned.  The point of my previous post was that there were many Star Trek games out there that are 3rd person shooters.  In fact, my all time favorite is the Star Fleet Command series.  Bridge Commander is also up there along with Legacy.  But that is 3rd person.  Again my point being a first person viewed as we see in the movies and series.  Cut scenes would be the 3rd person view with respect to the situation.  Just 3rd person, at least to me, has been done (literally) to death.  That is my point of view.  I made that clear.  So, while 3rd person starship combat is great, there are things that can be done to move the genre forward.  That was, again, my point. 

It sounds like, from what Mark has said, they will implement some ship board functions into the game as well.  I said this sounds like Bridge Commander 2 with a simple interior game structure.  So, they are going to delve a little into what I have in mind, but this needs to move past that and into a more immersive game play structure.  That is what intend to mod. 

Personal items, like tricorders and other small objects, would have to be dome by another mod.  I can attempt to tackle that as well, but I am focused on the starship systems and there functions with respect to the game at hand. 

That, and along with MP capability, that is quite a bit of work to do.  I am restricted by not knowing the coding structure of the game.  Yes, we know it's in Python (an older scripting language) and has a series of HP's that are set into the ships structure.  That's it.  Not a lot to go on ATM.  Once I see how they set up and tag the scripts (ship systems, ect.) then I can finally proceed.  Until then, I just have to wait and see.

I have the structure for my demo done, but need to work on the actual scripting for that, and that is put on hold ATM.  I have many other projects I am now working on.  We are looking at a few months before the demo is ready.  This demo will be a concept of the detail you will have with ship system functions and interactions with them.

Well I don't know about First vs Third person but I'd wager that logically, we'd get to choose.  lol 

When it comes to game functions and stuff to do on the ship, if the Team was able to implement everything you could do, would that still not just be BC2 with simple interior game structure, just a lot more of it?   What if the game structure is that once things are out, the main things as Mark mentioned you'd be doing stuff as we know.  As a large group of people add things to that interior game structure it will fill out even more without a singular person doing a singular massive mod.

I'd just say hold off on calling things "BC2 with a simple structure" until things progress further. 

[Poseidon]

Well I don't know about First vs Third person but I'd wager that logically, we'd get to choose.  lol 

When it comes to game functions and stuff to do on the ship, if the Team was able to implement everything you could do, would that still not just be BC2 with simple interior game structure, just a lot more of it?   What if the game structure is that once things are out, the main things as Mark mentioned you'd be doing stuff as we know.  As a large group of people add things to that interior game structure it will fill out even more without a singular person doing a singular massive mod.

I'd just say hold off on calling things "BC2 with a simple structure" until things progress further.

I do not believe the team will implement everything I have envisioned.  I did have a look at what was proposed before.  It did not look like a fully functioning bridge system they were after.  I submitted some simple designs for the project.  A few things only.  Thank God I did not give them much.  Since little, if any, interest was received from the team, I have continued with this mod in development.  BC, even with mods, was never this detailed.  Also, the interior interface I have designed is far more detailed and interactive than even what I initially proposed to the team in the first place. 

Also, be warned.  My work is copy written and protected (thanks Robert).  If your work resembles mine, there may be a bit of a problem.  Since I have created this long ago, I do have the solid position and claim to what I have been discussing.  I agree that things need to progress further.  I need to see how this will get done.  How the scripts interact with system functions, and what I will need to do to get my mod finished.

Oh, and one other thing, who said I was doing this by myself?  I did say "we" a lot didn't I?  You see, I know a few people from the old "Madd Doc" days that will help out.  Not trying to be arrogant here.  Just keeping things in perspective.  No need to fret.  This will get done.  One way, or another.

[Mark]

What happens when I shoot my helmsman and pull him from his seat so I can take his console?

Not 100% sure how far that will go at the moment, at a minimum they will be shipped off to the medical bay, at the other end of the spectrum we build a system which allows you to pick a new helm officer. In itself that isn't a difficult task, but we then introduce a requirement to record many different helm officer voices which makes the production effort even bigger. With that in mind it is probably something we will leave for the community.

It seems that you are suggesting that the interior (bridge) is the focal point when the player wishes to do something from a first person stand point only when there is something to do. 

Well, the bridge is the focal point for command of the ship full stop, in a similar way you can expect that engineering will be the focal point for repairs. These full level menus can be available from other consoles within the ship, such as the full helm menu being available in astrophysics, but the bridge is the only place on the ship where that all comes together and where you can switch to exterior view of the ship.

Also, be warned.  My work is copy written and protected (thanks Robert).  If your work resembles mine, there may be a bit of a problem.

Who are you talking to here?

[Poseidon]

Not 100% sure how far that will go at the moment, at a minimum they will be shipped off to the medical bay, at the other end of the spectrum we build a system which allows you to pick a new helm officer. In itself that isn't a difficult task, but we then introduce a requirement to record many different helm officer voices which makes the production effort even bigger. With that in mind it is probably something we will leave for the community.

Well, the bridge is the focal point for command of the ship full stop, in a similar way you can expect that engineering will be the focal point for repairs. These full level menus can be available from other consoles within the ship, such as the full helm menu being available in astrophysics, but the bridge is the only place on the ship where that all comes together and where you can switch to exterior view of the ship.

Who are you talking to here?

Hi Mark,

The menus you are talking about are drop and drag menus?  I believe that is what you and the team were on to earlier.

I agree the bridge would be the focal point for primary operations.  Terminal interfaces would be the best way to access ship functions, ... but menus???

... and it is what it is.  A simple statement that my work has been copy protected for a while now.  No accusations here, just stating that I have protected my work.  Nothing more.

I am very happy with what has been accomplished so far with ST:E.  This is a good team.  It is only that what I have in mind is not infringed upon.  Anyone of you would/should do the same.  I do hope all of my work gets implemented into this, or another platform.  But not to sound harsh, as I have put years of work into this.  My patent reflects that.  Simply, one only wishes to keep what one has worked so hard for all these years.  Laugh all you want, but I have given this approach to gaming a lot of thought.  I have friends that will help.  When the time comes, I will help produce a playable mod that will push gaming further if I am successful. 

[Mark]

The menus you are talking about are drop and drag menus?  I believe that is what you and the team were on to earlier.

I agree the bridge would be the focal point for primary operations.  Terminal interfaces would be the best way to access ship functions, ... but menus???

I didn't actually talk about how the user interface would work in the article, but it will be mouse based interaction for the most part because that is the most efficient way to interface with a computer. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by terminal interfaces since that isn't a category of user interface, but if you mean CLI I think that would be an awful idea as far as usability is concerned. It may be something that would appeal to the die-hard fans, but anyone looking for even a slightly more casual experience they would find it a turn-off.

... and it is what it is.  A simple statement that my work has been copy protected for a while now.  No accusations here, just stating that I have protected my work.  Nothing more.

I am very happy with what has been accomplished so far with ST:E.  This is a good team.  It is only that what I have in mind is not infringed upon.  Anyone of you would/should do the same.  I do hope all of my work gets implemented into this, or another platform.  But not to sound harsh, as I have put years of work into this.  My patent reflects that.  Simply, one only wishes to keep what one has worked so hard for all these years.  Laugh all you want, but I have given this approach to gaming a lot of thought.  I have friends that will help.  When the time comes, I will help produce a playable mod that will push gaming further if I am successful.

Nobody here is poking fun at you or your ideas, there is no need to be defensive.

The work that you did with the team for your probationary task was based around the hard-point system and, as you know, we opted for a less complicated mechanic than you were arguing for. Our current approach is very much along the lines of Jon's "Hardpoint System Taster" which was posted some time before your probation, so you have nothing to worry about in this regard.

[Poseidon]

I didn't actually talk about how the user interface would work in the article, but it will be mouse based interaction for the most part because that is the most efficient way to interface with a computer. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by terminal interfaces since that isn't a category of user interface, but if you mean CLI I think that would be an awful idea as far as usability is concerned. It may be something that would appeal to the die-hard fans, but anyone looking for even a slightly more casual experience they would find it a turn-off.

Nobody here is poking fun at you or your ideas, there is no need to be defensive.

The work that you did with the team for your probationary task was based around the hard-point system and, as you know, we opted for a less complicated mechanic than you were arguing for. Our current approach is very much along the lines of Jon's "Hardpoint System Taster" which was posted some time before your probation, so you have nothing to worry about in this regard.

Definitely not CLI.  The mouse would be used to activate terminals, there system/sub system functions.  I think many would love the approach.  Much more immersive.  Also, there are more die hard Trek fans out there than you might think.  Here in the States, they don't have annual conventions and themed parks built around Star Trek for nothing.  Trek is huge over here.  So, that being said, there is definitely hard core Trek fans that would love to see this kind of interaction and detail.

Yes, the complicated and detailed systems will pose a lot of time to script.  I do understand the work involved.  That is why I will complete my mod.  Jon's systems are simplistic, but good for the basics IMO. 

Look at Skyrim.  A LOT of detail.  Yes, they have an army to work with this, but the level of gaming is surpassing the level detail just a year or so ago.  People will judge an effort bey the level of detail, playability and game operation/interface with the player.  We no longer live in a world of the ADD gamer.  They are bright, brilliant and want more.  Enough said.

[Mark]

Ok, I understand what you mean by "terminals" now, I thought you were talking about using text commands to control the ship. We will have specific graphical interfaces for most of the different stations, but selecting which interface you want to get to will involve using a menu.

I actually think Skyrim is an example of what happens if there are too many menu's in a game. Take the inventory system as an example, instead of having a nice table view showing all your items and your character on the right of the screen you now just have a long list of items which are highlighted when being "used". This might be better for console but on a PC it just acts as an obstacle for the player to navigate through.

[Poseidon]

Ok, I understand what you mean by "terminals" now, I thought you were talking about using text commands to control the ship. We will have specific graphical interfaces for most of the different stations, but selecting which interface you want to get to will involve using a menu.

I actually think Skyrim is an example of what happens if there are too many menu's in a game. Take the inventory system as an example, instead of having a nice table view showing all your items and your character on the right of the screen you now just have a long list of items which are highlighted when being "used". This might be better for console but on a PC it just acts as an obstacle for the player to navigate through.

Skyrim's detail was the example, not the menus.  And, yes, I can see menus for terminal operations.  I just have to wait and see what you guys come up with.  Then, I can decide where to go from there.  I could get started on this sooner if you guys can let me know when you get the system integration done and how she is stringed together with scripts.  I could get a lot done soon after that.  It would be a BIG help if you could let me know when you reach that point. 

Thanks!