Author Topic: What some games Skip  (Read 954 times)

Offline Friskywolf

  • Cadet 1st Class
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Cookies: 0
  • Member
What some games Skip
« on: November 04, 2011, 07:09:42 PM »
Well my thing is here most games forget to add more realism by making things like the computers on your Bridge explode and Short out or even mabye the Engineering Console Explode when overloading the shields for to long and make the crew look more Active most games forget alot of that cause there focused on the outside objects not thats inside

Offline hnewberry99

  • The Fried Moose
  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 120
  • Cookies: 1
  • White and Nerdy
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2011, 11:36:49 PM »
I agree but id suggest going the Star Trek (2009) route where things look like they are getting damaged and not like the tv shows where smoke comes out and the lights get dim.
ITS A TRAP!!!

Offline MajorD

  • Fleet Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2557
  • Cookies: 7
  • Look Behind You
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2011, 07:04:21 AM »
Exploding consoles are the opposite of realistic. Other universes, such as real life, have circuit breakers, or at least fuses, as well as electronics hardened against EMP.
I'm on a pig.

Now, it's diamonds.

Offline hnewberry99

  • The Fried Moose
  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 120
  • Cookies: 1
  • White and Nerdy
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2011, 10:36:42 AM »
Even if it is unrealistic, id rather see something the CONN explode in a ray of sparks and light that wacthing an unnamed wall panel fall off and the lights dimming.
ITS A TRAP!!!

Offline sman789

  • Commodore
  • **
  • Posts: 407
  • Cookies: 1
  • What's more fun? A flag, an apple or a penguin?
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2011, 10:32:16 PM »
Even if it is unrealistic, id rather see something the CONN explode in a ray of sparks and light that wacthing an unnamed wall panel fall off and the lights dimming.

I disagree. MajorD is right about the consoles - and having the wall panels come off and the lights break would be a lot more scary and representative of the damage to the ship.

Offline hnewberry99

  • The Fried Moose
  • Ensign
  • *
  • Posts: 120
  • Cookies: 1
  • White and Nerdy
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 06:54:36 AM »
Id like that is its suppost to be scary. But the last thing id be thinking about with a Romulan War Bird shooting at me would be being frightened. If it is an unknown enemy pummeling us than i would prefer being scared (VOY "Night")
ITS A TRAP!!!

Offline MajorD

  • Fleet Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2557
  • Cookies: 7
  • Look Behind You
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2011, 02:07:06 PM »
Looks like I may be wrong, I just saw some facts about EMP induced in systems by X-Rays and Gamma Rays.

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/spacegunconvent.php#id--Nukes_In_Space--EMP
Quote
When gamma and x-rays from a high altitude detonation encounter a satellite in space they excite and release electrons as they penetrate the interior of the system. This phenomena is referred to as system generated electromagnetic pulse (SGEMP) because the accelerated electrons create electromagnetic transients. Systems must be configured with special cables, aperture protection, grounding, and insulating materials in order to survive these transients.

SGEMP impacts space system electronics in three ways. First, x-rays arriving at the spacecraft skin cause an accumulation of electrons there. The electron charge, which is not uniformly distributed on the skin, causes current to flow on the outside of the system. These currents can penetrate into the interior through various apertures, as well as into and through the solar cell power transmission system. Secondly, x-rays can also penetrate the skin to produce electrons on the interior walls of the various compartments. The resulting interior electron currents generate cavity electromagnetic fields that induce voltages on the associated electronics which produce spurious currents that can cause upset or burnout of these systems. Finally, x-rays can produce electrons that find their way directly into signal and power cables to cause extraneous cable currents. These currents are also propagated through the satellite wiring harness.

The only thing I'm wondering is, assuming you have enough protections to protect against reasonable amounts of EMP, induced in the system or external, at what point does it become deadly to the crew? After all, Trek shields protect against EM radiation, so console explosion implies radiation bleed through, which we already knew happens with weapons fire. Perhaps Starfleet is over reliant on shields as their only EMP defense?

Actually that would imply all consoles everywhere in the ship should pop at once. This might mean Starfleet ships possess circuit breakers, despite popular opinion.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2011, 02:25:40 PM by MajorD »
I'm on a pig.

Now, it's diamonds.

Offline Poseidon

  • Rear Admiral
  • ***
  • Posts: 743
  • Cookies: 5
  • Member
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2011, 03:11:22 AM »
OK,

Consoles are power interactions that adjust ship systems / functions.  Plasma streams run through the odm conduits to the terminal displays (via small plasma conduits.  You will see them when a terminal panel is popped up or off.).  You bet your ars that the plasma can explode or even eject jets of energy from the terminal if damaged a certain ways.

You see, terminals have many different ways they can be damaged.  They don't always explode.  Enough said. 
Current Rig:
MSI 890FXA-G70 MoBo
Phenom II 955 Quad Core (3.2Ghz x 4)
16Gigs Corsar 1600Mhz FBS RAM
(2) Diamond HD 6870 XOC @ Crossfire
XFI Fata1ity
500G x 1 Tera SATA HD's
1200w ToughPower Mini "Warp Core"
26" ASUS
Windows 7 x64 Ulimate

Offline Poseidon

  • Rear Admiral
  • ***
  • Posts: 743
  • Cookies: 5
  • Member
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2011, 03:15:35 AM »
Looks like I may be wrong, I just saw some facts about EMP induced in systems by X-Rays and Gamma Rays.

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/spacegunconvent.php#id--Nukes_In_Space--EMP
The only thing I'm wondering is, assuming you have enough protections to protect against reasonable amounts of EMP, induced in the system or external, at what point does it become deadly to the crew? After all, Trek shields protect against EM radiation, so console explosion implies radiation bleed through, which we already knew happens with weapons fire. Perhaps Starfleet is over reliant on shields as their only EMP defense?

Actually that would imply all consoles everywhere in the ship should pop at once. This might mean Starfleet ships possess circuit breakers, despite popular opinion.

No sir.

Each ship systems is specific.  Each terminal is specific to each system.  Many back up and fail safe systems involved, but during combat, overloads and ODM plasma conduits to terminals often get damaged.  Remember, the terminals channel / direct streams of plasma directly.  Hard to put a circuit breaker on that sir.
Current Rig:
MSI 890FXA-G70 MoBo
Phenom II 955 Quad Core (3.2Ghz x 4)
16Gigs Corsar 1600Mhz FBS RAM
(2) Diamond HD 6870 XOC @ Crossfire
XFI Fata1ity
500G x 1 Tera SATA HD's
1200w ToughPower Mini "Warp Core"
26" ASUS
Windows 7 x64 Ulimate

Offline sman789

  • Commodore
  • **
  • Posts: 407
  • Cookies: 1
  • What's more fun? A flag, an apple or a penguin?
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2011, 05:09:03 AM »
Remember, the terminals channel / direct streams of plasma directly.

Perhaps by the time of Excalibur they have realized that putting the plasma pipes a few extra feet behind the consoles would be a good idea :)

Offline Poseidon

  • Rear Admiral
  • ***
  • Posts: 743
  • Cookies: 5
  • Member
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2011, 06:29:15 AM »
Perhaps by the time of Excalibur they have realized that putting the plasma pipes a few extra feet behind the consoles would be a good idea :)

Yes, I would most certainly agree, but we are dealing with a stepped down plasma power generated by the warp core.  This plasma is well suited for it's purpose, but deals it's own set of risks.  Like I said, not all terminals would explode if damaged.  It could, but it might also simply fail to function.  This is, after all, the 24th century.  There are no more transistors or circuit breakers.  Your dealing with plasma conduits.  Even micro plasma conduits.  However, they can explode with a great deal of energy.  But again, they may not.
Current Rig:
MSI 890FXA-G70 MoBo
Phenom II 955 Quad Core (3.2Ghz x 4)
16Gigs Corsar 1600Mhz FBS RAM
(2) Diamond HD 6870 XOC @ Crossfire
XFI Fata1ity
500G x 1 Tera SATA HD's
1200w ToughPower Mini "Warp Core"
26" ASUS
Windows 7 x64 Ulimate

Offline Zero

  • Cadet 3rd Class
  • ***
  • Posts: 55
  • Cookies: 0
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2011, 07:34:44 AM »
I find it a ridiculous notion that something akin to a tablet touchscreen display is powered by raw, high voltage plasma. Input and display terminals don't need a gigawatt to power :P.

I think the original series, TNG, and the 2009 movie did it right (basically everything but Voyager, late DS9, and Enterprise), where things rock and dim when the ship is being heavily taxed from weapon's fire while the shields are working. Things shouldn't crack or explode unless the ship is literally -falling apart around you- and taking heavy, direct structural damage (e.g. Kelvin, Enterprise D from Yesterday's Enterprise).

But exploding consoles when the shields have been nicked or some far away part of the ship has taken a hit? Sorry, but Voyager with its "sneeze on it and it lights up like a roman candle" is as unrealistic as it gets. The repair bills alone from one hit would be astronomical, and why did the entire bridge not lose function and power immediately? If sparks are flying, then connections are breaking, and things should be failing en mass; -let alone explosions-.

Basically, by the point you're getting electrical discharges, explosions, and fire on your bridge, you're petty well and done for.

Offline Poseidon

  • Rear Admiral
  • ***
  • Posts: 743
  • Cookies: 5
  • Member
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2011, 10:50:53 AM »
I find it a ridiculous notion that something akin to a tablet touchscreen display is powered by raw, high voltage plasma. Input and display terminals don't need a gigawatt to power :P.


Again, read my previous posts.  I did say "stepped down"plasma power did I not?  This would mean that plasma power from the warp core would be "stepped down" to operational levels that were regulated for bridge terminal (or whatever sub system requirements were).  So, micro and small plasma connections to terminals would be correct.  They are the switching point for main system power and adjustments to them.  This is supported from the series and movies.  In other words, this is based on canon. 
Current Rig:
MSI 890FXA-G70 MoBo
Phenom II 955 Quad Core (3.2Ghz x 4)
16Gigs Corsar 1600Mhz FBS RAM
(2) Diamond HD 6870 XOC @ Crossfire
XFI Fata1ity
500G x 1 Tera SATA HD's
1200w ToughPower Mini "Warp Core"
26" ASUS
Windows 7 x64 Ulimate

Offline AndroidVageta

  • Cadet 1st Class
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Cookies: 0
  • Where no game has gone before!
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2011, 04:00:56 PM »
I'm looking at the technical manual used for TNG and Poseidon is correct.

Though it doesn't specifically state how much power the terminals use in relation to the main systems they are IN FACT using plasma as the primary power source and display material.

Also, think about it...when the terminals overload and someone is hit they are BURNED to death due to what can only be plasma burns. So having terminals overload and explode would indeed ultimately be realistic based on the actual technology used.

So although I would agree that diming/flickering lights and the ship panels falling off gives the situation panick and more fear, the consoles exploding is more realistic. Please note too that this isn't based on my opinion...its here in the manual and from using examples in TNG.

Terminal display = Plasma display = Powered/plasma supplied by primary system = overload of primary system = Display overload = Display plasma explosion/death/severe burns.

Intel i7 950 @ 4Ghz|Gigabyte X58 MB|Gigabyte GTX580 @ 975Mhz|3x2GB DDR3|6x1.5TB RAID0 (800MB Read/Write :-D)|Corsair TX850W|Zalman GT-1000 Case|Sony Trinitron 22" Flat CRT 2048x1536 75hz|

Offline Poseidon

  • Rear Admiral
  • ***
  • Posts: 743
  • Cookies: 5
  • Member
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2011, 10:13:31 AM »
I'm looking at the technical manual used for TNG and Poseidon is correct.

Though it doesn't specifically state how much power the terminals use in relation to the main systems they are IN FACT using plasma as the primary power source and display material.

Also, think about it...when the terminals overload and someone is hit they are BURNED to death due to what can only be plasma burns. So having terminals overload and explode would indeed ultimately be realistic based on the actual technology used.

So although I would agree that diming/flickering lights and the ship panels falling off gives the situation panick and more fear, the consoles exploding is more realistic. Please note too that this isn't based on my opinion...its here in the manual and from using examples in TNG.

Terminal display = Plasma display = Powered/plasma supplied by primary system = overload of primary system = Display overload = Display plasma explosion/death/severe burns.

Thanks for the props!

I do get my sources from the top.  Also, a lot of reading and studying, such as the Tech. Manual from the Okuda's.  So, diving into what ship systems are all about, lead me to explore and being introduced to a few special people.  It helped me understand Genes vision better and what the latest teno bable came from.  Tecno bable, or fantasy tech, has to have some real world implications.  Memory Alpha only goes so far.  Sometimes, you even have to create tech where there are grey areas.  I did this with help from special sources and those in the know.  In fact, there is A LOT of grey area that had to be rationalized through to make the tech believable.  So, that is, in a nut shell, the bases for every answer I have ever given.  Sometimes, it's grey arear, and sometimes, it is canon.  In this case, it is canon.       
Current Rig:
MSI 890FXA-G70 MoBo
Phenom II 955 Quad Core (3.2Ghz x 4)
16Gigs Corsar 1600Mhz FBS RAM
(2) Diamond HD 6870 XOC @ Crossfire
XFI Fata1ity
500G x 1 Tera SATA HD's
1200w ToughPower Mini "Warp Core"
26" ASUS
Windows 7 x64 Ulimate

Offline MajorD

  • Fleet Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2557
  • Cookies: 7
  • Look Behind You
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2011, 12:56:07 PM »
OK,

Consoles are power interactions that adjust ship systems / functions.  Plasma streams run through the odm conduits to the terminal displays (via small plasma conduits.  You will see them when a terminal panel is popped up or off.).  You bet your ars that the plasma can explode or even eject jets of energy from the terminal if damaged a certain ways.

You see, terminals have many different ways they can be damaged.  They don't always explode.  Enough said.
No sir.

Each ship systems is specific.  Each terminal is specific to each system.  Many back up and fail safe systems involved, but during combat, overloads and ODM plasma conduits to terminals often get damaged.  Remember, the terminals channel / direct streams of plasma directly.  Hard to put a circuit breaker on that sir.

These aren't early 20th century machines, directly handling giant currents like an electromechanical computer running an elevator. They're mildly modern style systems sending signals to power handling equipment, keeping things isolated.

Considering everything gets back to main computer this, main computer that, the implication is the consoles don't need to be powerful, they only need enough to run their operating system, and can push all the hard stuff on the super computer. We also know the consoles are not hard coded, single function computers, the rear consoles make that abundantly clear. The have been used for data correlation, damage control, take over of the main computer, and the big one is, engineering control. Even the way warp works shows the bridge doesn't use a direct loop in the warp drive, because they're frequently calling down to engineering for more speed and more power, like a steam ship, rather than a ship with an internal combustion engine. Same for the school room computers, which once given LCARS access allowed Picard to gain control of the transporters, a very high power system, from inside the school room. That shows control of systems aren't done with one to one connections, so console overload based on specific system overload doesn't make sense.

Consoles have no business using as much power as a a whole laptop battery every second, let alone requiring taps into the main power trunk. The explosions from console are also inconsistent with plasma explosions and leads stated to actually be plasma based.
I'm on a pig.

Now, it's diamonds.

Offline AndroidVageta

  • Cadet 1st Class
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Cookies: 0
  • Where no game has gone before!
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2011, 01:41:13 AM »
Are you still trying to debate something that's been proven?

Intel i7 950 @ 4Ghz|Gigabyte X58 MB|Gigabyte GTX580 @ 975Mhz|3x2GB DDR3|6x1.5TB RAID0 (800MB Read/Write :-D)|Corsair TX850W|Zalman GT-1000 Case|Sony Trinitron 22" Flat CRT 2048x1536 75hz|

Offline MajorD

  • Fleet Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 2557
  • Cookies: 7
  • Look Behind You
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2011, 02:34:48 AM »
What's been proven? The Technical Manual's aren't canon, and the use of plasma displays is as ridiculous as them running off ship's plasma.
I'm on a pig.

Now, it's diamonds.

Offline Poseidon

  • Rear Admiral
  • ***
  • Posts: 743
  • Cookies: 5
  • Member
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2011, 04:12:15 AM »
Are you still trying to debate something that's been proven?

Yes they are!

Let them go.....

They have there own visions and there is nothing wrong with that.  Just PLEASE let people like me, and give us the full SDK's to create what is correct.  That's all I ask.
Current Rig:
MSI 890FXA-G70 MoBo
Phenom II 955 Quad Core (3.2Ghz x 4)
16Gigs Corsar 1600Mhz FBS RAM
(2) Diamond HD 6870 XOC @ Crossfire
XFI Fata1ity
500G x 1 Tera SATA HD's
1200w ToughPower Mini "Warp Core"
26" ASUS
Windows 7 x64 Ulimate

Offline sman789

  • Commodore
  • **
  • Posts: 407
  • Cookies: 1
  • What's more fun? A flag, an apple or a penguin?
Re: What some games Skip
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2011, 04:13:19 AM »
MajorD's argument makes sense - its a shame that the technical manual doesn't agree with him but as he said it's not necessarily canon. Also, Excalibur is set further into the future than even Nemesis, so things could have been changed if the devs want them to have been. Personally I'd rather not see constant console explosions for a few reasons - firstly it'd kill crew members you might like (who would have to be replaced with people with different voices and that's difficult from a development point of view), secondly it would mean the consoles are broken and can't be used until they're fixed, and thirdly its continuing a long running joke about Star Trek - plus I imagine it would take more effort to implement well than flickering lights and screens would.

Perhaps you can mod it in, Poseidon :P