Author Topic: What if Voyager was a Galaxy or Sovereign?  (Read 1468 times)

Offline AricwithanA

  • The One and Only
  • Admiral
  • ****
  • Posts: 1168
  • Cookies: 7
  • UI Developer
Re: What if Voyager was a Galaxy or Sovereign?
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2011, 12:59:51 AM »
Without Voyager, the Kazon would have quickly boarded the station, and would have been able to kill the caretaker before he could initiate self destruct.

How would they have known?  Yea, less energy was happening, but this all did happen in a very quick timescale.  Which is simpler...the Kazon actually noticed the energy output was lessing and with in the span of a few hours (?) decided to mount an investigation, board the array, find the caretaker almost dead and take over...or that the kazon were there at that exact/specific moment because of the direct involvement of Voyager?
"The work to which we have set ourselves is the liberating of the imagination, the harnessing of imagination to humankind's deepest sense of creativity. -The Sisterhood's Credo

Offline Atlantisbase

  • Jr. Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 130
  • Cookies: 0
  • USS Hime NCC-78509
Re: What if Voyager was a Galaxy or Sovereign?
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2011, 01:09:04 PM »
And yes, the Type of the phaser array segments is very important, but it is not the sole factor. An array is comprised of dozens to hundreds, even as many as a thousand individual phaser segments. A Type-XII array that can only fire 48 segments at a time is not going to match the output of a Type-X array that can fire 362 segments at a time. It's going to do it more efficiently per emitter, but it's not going to match the power.
I find this statement erronious. It seems to assume that a Type-XII emitter has the same energy capacity as a Type-X. Presumably a single Type-XII can channel significantly more energy than a Type-X thus achieving the same or greater power output over the whole array. Also, there's nothing to say that the emitter technology hasn't changed. The introduction of pulse phaser technology used on the Defiant may have found applications in conventional beam emitters which allowed for greater throughput.

The Galaxy does only have two launchers able to fire in normal operational mode, but they are absolutely massive launchers. They dwarf any other launcher on any other ship, except possibly an identical launcher on the Nebula class. They are massive railguns that not only can preload and fire as many as ten torpedoes at a time, they also can accelerate those torpedoes to a very high velocity, much faster than the much smaller launchers on the Sovereign and Intrepid, and most other starships can. The Galaxy's two launchers alone can actually out-compete even the Sovereign class' torpedo firepower, including quantum torpedoes, until the Nemesis upgrade. And even then the Sovereign in Nemesis only competes because of the expansion to the quantum launcher. If the Galaxy is upgraded to be able to fire quantums, she wipes the floor with anything in torpedoes except for a Nebula class equipped with a torpedo pod.
Again, I believe you're compairing apples to oranges. There's nothing to indicate that the Sovereign's main launcher isn't capable of preloading and simultaineous fire, even pre-upgrades. Since we only actually see a Sovereign using torpedoes (prior to Nemesis) in FC, there's nothing to say that it can't fire ten torpedoes from a single launcher. The shp is certainly large enough that it could. We know for certain that it can fire volleys of at least three or four torpedoes and the reloading times are probably inconsequential (they certainly are come Nemesis as the Enterprise unloaded a substantial number - regardless of whether it had a full complement - of torpedoes in what, 20-30 mins)

Offline joe5

  • Lieutenant
  • ***
  • Posts: 162
  • Cookies: 0
  • Member
Re: What if Voyager was a Galaxy or Sovereign?
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2011, 05:49:09 AM »
so you are saying that a mature technology has improved more than 8 times during ten years

Offline Ilithi_Dragon

  • Dragon Overlord
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 220
  • Cookies: 1
    • Ruminations of a Dragon
Re: What if Voyager was a Galaxy or Sovereign?
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2011, 06:31:36 AM »
I find this statement erronious. It seems to assume that a Type-XII emitter has the same energy capacity as a Type-X. Presumably a single Type-XII can channel significantly more energy than a Type-X thus achieving the same or greater power output over the whole array. Also, there's nothing to say that the emitter technology hasn't changed. The introduction of pulse phaser technology used on the Defiant may have found applications in conventional beam emitters which allowed for greater throughput.

Hardly so. Remember, the emitter is only a single component of the phaser assembly, and the last stage, the stage that refines and directs the phaser energy. The emitter crystals themselves are all made of the same material, and have been around for well over a hundred years. Starfleet is probably at the peak physical limits in what can be achieved with phaser emitter crystals by TNG, especially with their advanced manufacturing technology.

The thing that appears to be the critical limiting factor in phaser power are the parts of the phaser beneath the emitter crystal, the parts that convert the EPS plasma into phaser energy. In "The Nth Degree" Geordi shunts all available plasma straight into a section of phaser emitters on the array, bypassing the normal intermediate stage that the TNG:TM describes, and that is implied in the scene. The emitters themselves appear to be able to handle direct plasma channeling for a greater output effect, but that this causes serious problems for heat and wear that make that useful only as a limited, one-off trick, and there is an intermediary stage that refines the raw plasma into something that the emitters can more easily handle. These would likely be the 'pre-fire chambers' that the TNG:TM describes, and the components that Rick Sternbach said had been miniaturized to fit into the smaller emitter housings that we see on the Sovereign class.


Again, I believe you're compairing apples to oranges. There's nothing to indicate that the Sovereign's main launcher isn't capable of preloading and simultaineous fire, even pre-upgrades. Since we only actually see a Sovereign using torpedoes (prior to Nemesis) in FC, there's nothing to say that it can't fire ten torpedoes from a single launcher. The shp is certainly large enough that it could. We know for certain that it can fire volleys of at least three or four torpedoes and the reloading times are probably inconsequential (they certainly are come Nemesis as the Enterprise unloaded a substantial number - regardless of whether it had a full complement - of torpedoes in what, 20-30 mins)

Except their size, the fact that we have only seen them fire bursts of three with long durations in between salvos, and the fact that the torpedoes fired by the E-E and other ships with similar launchers have always been slow-moving, while the E-D's torpedoes have almost always been fired with a very high starting velocity. The Galaxy's launchers are much longer assemblies, allowing them to preload more torpedoes and accelerate them to higher speeds like a railgun.

Furthermore, The E-E fired torpedoes in Insurrection against two pursuing Son'a battleships, a perfect time to use her launchers' full capacity, yet she was observed firing a pair of torpedoes, one at a time. And again in Nemesis, she never demonstrated more than bursts of three torpedoes with long wait times between bursts from individual launchers, even after the Scimitar's cloak had been disrupted, when massive salvos like that would have definitely been called for. Those torpedoes have all also been fired at much lower velocities.

Lastly, the designers' description of the Sovereign in FC was that she had 4 photon torpedo launchers capable of firing 12 torpedoes (excluding the quantum launcher, which was mentioned separately), which precisely fits with each launcher being capable of firing bursts of 4 torpedoes. And with the quantum launcher, nicely places the Sovereign's at-launch torpedo firepower into the range of what we would expect from a Heavy Cruiser of her size.


Oh, and Rick Sternbach, one of the ship's designers, himself said that the Sovereign was a Heavy Cruiser designed to replace the Excelsior, not a Battleship designed to replace the Galaxy.
Ilithi - Dragon of Light
Lazarus: "Don't yell at me. If you don't want shot, don't get up after dying."
Dragons DO walk the Earth today. You just have to know how to look to see us.
Per tolerantia, pacis