A Repectful "Multi Player" Plea to the Devs.

[Poseidon]

You can implement a "multiplayer" environment multiple ways. Let's see some:

- Through web based database server.
This is cheap and very simple to do. On the other hand playing player vs player or co-op this way is next to impossible.
You can achieve a Persistent galaxy this way. You can wander around in a huge galaxy, exploring and charting procedurally generated sectors and systems. Your can see other player's ships on the chart. You can see other player's charting progress. You can visit places, other players explored. But you can't meet them head-on. The best you can do for an interraction is to do an online chat.
This requires a low cost database server and minimal coding. This is good for an exploration or strategy metagame.

- LAN.
Multicrewing is moderately easy. You don't have to worry about latency and prediction. Only 1 ship and everyone is working co-op so you just have to rely the station data back and forth. There could be a fun aspect of this. Like some players fight with the ship in a tactical view, while others repair the ship and repell boarders in FPS style.
The Co-op tactical is just a bit harder since the setup is still esentially a lag free and one machine acts as a server. Since there is no competitive nature in this game type, lower quality netcode would do.
PVP is a thougher cookie because you can't allow slugish syncronization. Therefore you have to optimize the netcode and the traffic better.

- Direct connection PVP/Coop through the internet
Now that is extremely hard to do right (even the mighty DICE with the Battlefield series couldn't do it) plus you have to have dedicated servers which are costly. You need a team of experienced network specialts and months of hard work to make working version. Well, those experts are rare and very expensive.

I can see the 1st version added to compliment the story line. I've worked on this type of systems before, so it is not a big deal.
The 2nd version can be implemented within a reasonable timeframe if someone put some work into it.
The 3rd version, well I'd not hold my breath. Maybe a coop, but even that may be just way too hard to worth it.

Oh Yea!

Roll playing the terminals!!!

You are after my heart!!!!

That is what I will attempt to create with a modd.  Fully functioning terminals that effect just about every operation/sub system operation on board a Starship.  I do not think the Devs will model this with the detail I have in mind.  That is why I will be making this modd.  MP at each terminal would create the next step in Star Trek gaming evolution!  I am gathering my resources.  I have found a few old friends to help me out.  This will get done.

So, just need another group to do the MMOG modd, and there you will have it!  Still need to wait and see what the SDK and any special scripting tools that will be released for it is first.

[strike277]

Oh Yea!

Roll playing the terminals!!!

You are after my heart!!!!

That is what I will attempt to create with a modd.  Fully functioning terminals that effect just about every operation/sub system operation on board a Starship.  I do not think the Devs will model this with the detail I have in mind.  That is why I will be making this modd.  MP at each terminal would create the next step in Star Trek gaming evolution!  I am gathering my resources.  I have found a few old friends to help me out.  This will get done.

So, just need another group to do the MMOG modd, and there you will have it!  Still need to wait and see what the SDK and any special scripting tools that will be released for it is first.

Wow, I love your confidence. I really hope that time does not decay your enthusiasm.  Can you imagine the possibilities? This would bring Star Trek to life !

[Poseidon]

Wow, I love your confidence. I really hope that time does not decay your enthusiasm.  Can you imagine the possibilities? This would bring Star Trek to life !

Thanks!

Just have to wait and see.  Need to see the scripting tools they will need/use.  It will happen, just need to be patient.  Remember, someone still needs to create MP code for the game.  Hopefully, someone who knows MP code very well and can add/create compression/unpacking software for the MP that will have little to no lag time.

As for my project, I do have design documents already completed.  I worked from them before, but had to scale them down (and even then it was too complex).  This time, after discussing this with some fellow colleges, the full potential of the systems/sub-system breakdown is definitely doable. 

[strike277]

Thanks!

Just have to wait and see.  Need to see the scripting tools they will need/use.  It will happen, just need to be patient.  Remember, someone still needs to create MP code for the game.  Hopefully, someone who knows MP code very well and can add/create compression/unpacking software for the MP that will have little to no lag time.

As for my project, I do have design documents already completed.  I worked from them before, but had to scale them down (and even then it was too complex).  This time, after discussing this with some fellow colleges, the full potential of the systems/sub-system breakdown is definitely doable.

Patients is a virtue..   I know we're talking years after the product is released, but it's an exciting thought that I will exist. 

[hnewberry99]

The problem with someone making a mod is you have to independently. So instead of people who own ST:E, you'd only play with people with the mod. On the other hand, they might go with the MC piston method and hire the guys that make the mod and add it to the game.

[burgenet]

I for one greatly like this suggestion. Even if it had to be scaled fown for the present-day limitations.

The idea of being able to deligate authority of various ship components to "real" bridge officers would be fascinating. However, it does seem that it may be the ultimate issue of "why do you get to be Captain? Again...". Actually a space simulator would lend itself rather greatly to a multi-component aspect. Each component could be a program that could be launched on another computer and networked into the "mainframe". Ideally, for more realism, these would be in the same room - but not a necessity. I also can imaging a room retrofitted as a bridge. With a large screen TV, multiple touch screen monitors, and a few friends flying the galaxy. All the sudden a ship appears on scanners. They hail them (over video chat). And it's another group of friends that took damage during a fight....

I think the harder issue, than programming the multiple consoles, is to actualy immerse each player in the game. Whether they are the Captain or the Engineer. The Captain has constant decisions to make regarding every system on the ship. The engineer has one. If we could have explosions and simulated effects, that would definitely make things more exciting.... but ultimately, I would want to be Captain and most others would as well.

My best guess is that such a simulator would have to be an entirely different project just because the dynamics of the entire system would be changed. But it would be a fun one.

[burgenet]

Curious: What about implementing an integrated text/audio/video chat system? Basically this would be just for social interaction and there would be no real multiplayer gameplay. You could have various chat channels, based upon current location, and also allow saving contacts as friends.

This would greatly simplify the development of a "semi-multiplayer" aspect, while stepping towards appeasing the crowd that does want multi-player. It would also allow colaboration during exploration - while a friend may not be able to directly assist, they could provide advice.

For video chatters, the video session could be directed "on-screen" in which the webcam image would appear on the main view screen. This could be implemented either through a web based proxy or IP to IP in which the chatters would need to share IP addresses.... just a thought.

[schwarzwolf]

Implimenting a MP Mode would be the coolest ever. That u can play with friends on a Starship or to fly with 2 starships. But i also think that it is a very difficult intend. Eventually it could be make, by only transfering datas who are necessarily for a roughly alignment of the 2 gameworlds. Well, it would be my dream to have it in the game, but i don't think its necessary for the first release. But would be a good idea for a addon or a update for the game. Otherwise it would indeed take to long until the first version will be released.

[Maxi]

I for one greatly like this suggestion. Even if it had to be scaled fown for the present-day limitations.

The idea of being able to deligate authority of various ship components to "real" bridge officers would be fascinating. However, it does seem that it may be the ultimate issue of "why do you get to be Captain? Again...". Actually a space simulator would lend itself rather greatly to a multi-component aspect. Each component could be a program that could be launched on another computer and networked into the "mainframe". Ideally, for more realism, these would be in the same room - but not a necessity. I also can imaging a room retrofitted as a bridge. With a large screen TV, multiple touch screen monitors, and a few friends flying the galaxy. All the sudden a ship appears on scanners. They hail them (over video chat). And it's another group of friends that took damage during a fight....

I think the harder issue, than programming the multiple consoles, is to actualy immerse each player in the game. Whether they are the Captain or the Engineer. The Captain has constant decisions to make regarding every system on the ship. The engineer has one. If we could have explosions and simulated effects, that would definitely make things more exciting.... but ultimately, I would want to be Captain and most others would as well.

My best guess is that such a simulator would have to be an entirely different project just because the dynamics of the entire system would be changed. But it would be a fun one.

However development started as an improvement of Bridge Commander, that means leaving out some features from the beginning. Having dedicated servers  would require infraestructure and money. Single player instead offers better storytelling, better roleplaying and avoids the flaws STO has. For me one of these flaws is the pragmatic and straightfordward playing of most players in MMORPG games.

[burgenet]

Actually for the most part, I agree. EVE for example: While I did enjoy the game play, for sometime, it was ultimately the fact that it was an MMO that lost my interest. All it takes is a handful of bored people to destroy everything you were working towards. It's one thing to lose as part of a story or adventure - but when it's just totaly random it is less than impressive. After a few run-ins with other players who had no desire to play the game, I was less willing to venture out in any ship because the cost of being destroyed. I then realized, what's the point of playing the game if I don't want to venture out?

MMOs have a big issue - all that I have played - that is that you have a group of role-players who try to play the game as an alternate reality and get into character. Then you have those that just want to blow people up. It's very incompatible for both players to co-exist.

If it was my decision, I'd be torn on which I would implement and probably would side with the easier approach of single-player. However, it would still be nice to have a social aspect to the game. Unfortunately most computer AI is rather basic in their social abilities. For instance, X3: Terran Conflict. Everytime I would click on a ship I'd get the option to say 3 things on average. None of them useful. It'd be great to be flying around and be able to answer a distress call.

I think multi-player has the potential to add more depth and dynamics to a game - but it really needs to be limited to help eliminate those players that are incompatible with each other. To date - I know of no way to effectively do that.

[schwarzwolf]

Yes, i would also prefer a single player experience over a MMO one. But a multi player mode with about 12 peoples or something like this connecting to one pc would be nice. Also with 64 peoples but donno if it would be to easy to make something like this.

[John]

The official line is:  While it is currently not a priority in terms of project goals, it is a consideration in terms of the software architecture.

[schwarzwolf]

The official line is:  While it is currently not a priority in terms of project goals, it is a consideration in terms of the software architecture.

That actually sounds great and lets the way open, that a mp mode can be made easier after the release even as mod, what i see as very likely then when the game is already supporting the mp possibility. Even wen i look that peoples try to implement mods in other games who aren't builded with the term of mp in mind.
Now we need only some peoples who will build some editors for faster and easier modding (without having to code all time) and i will start to see the risk for me that Excalibur will become the only game i would play anymore then. 

[Poseidon]

The problem with someone making a mod is you have to independently. So instead of people who own ST:E, you'd only play with people with the mod. On the other hand, they might go with the MC piston method and hire the guys that make the mod and add it to the game.

That is not going to happen.

My mod will produce the MP code to add to ST:E.

Just very busy right now with at least 3 other major projects.

Towards the end of the year, I will release a small mini game for everyone to play around with.  Basic frame work for this is now complete.

[Poseidon]

I for one greatly like this suggestion. Even if it had to be scaled fown for the present-day limitations.

The idea of being able to deligate authority of various ship components to "real" bridge officers would be fascinating. However, it does seem that it may be the ultimate issue of "why do you get to be Captain? Again...". Actually a space simulator would lend itself rather greatly to a multi-component aspect. Each component could be a program that could be launched on another computer and networked into the "mainframe". Ideally, for more realism, these would be in the same room - but not a necessity. I also can imaging a room retrofitted as a bridge. With a large screen TV, multiple touch screen monitors, and a few friends flying the galaxy. All the sudden a ship appears on scanners. They hail them (over video chat). And it's another group of friends that took damage during a fight....

I think the harder issue, than programming the multiple consoles, is to actualy immerse each player in the game. Whether they are the Captain or the Engineer. The Captain has constant decisions to make regarding every system on the ship. The engineer has one. If we could have explosions and simulated effects, that would definitely make things more exciting.... but ultimately, I would want to be Captain and most others would as well.

My best guess is that such a simulator would have to be an entirely different project just because the dynamics of the entire system would be changed. But it would be a fun one.

You bring out very real issues toward the mod.  All of this has been examined and looked at.  Playing out a bridge crew at a station is the ultimate Star Trek gaming experience.  ST:E will go only into a single person player game only at this point.  The MP code I am examining looks very promising.  ST:E will be redone to a certain degree to allow for this level of detail.  Most likely, the HP will have to be redone.  If you affect 1 system, it will have effects on others.  The HP's have to be able to do that.  This is not a GFX mod at all.  It will be a MP/game play mod.  Just need to see what scripting tools and alowable access to the engine we will have.

[Poseidon]

Yes, i would also prefer a single player experience over a MMO one. But a multi player mode with about 12 peoples or something like this connecting to one pc would be nice. Also with 64 peoples but donno if it would be to easy to make something like this.

You over look the concept.

Whether this is a single player or MMO, the game play with what each person would do "in game" would be the focal point.  MMO's with canned levels are crap.  Period!  MMO's with a rich history and deep alternative based missions would be necessary to achieve a proper MMO based game.  It is the "game play" so to speak that will define the game.

I will attempt to post my mini game concept on my next appearance.

[caver313]

I would love to serve aboard a starship with other player officers! 

- Not be the captain. Not as much responsibility will give more time in the Lounge

[Praetor]

Instead of the annoying "Will there be Multi player" question that is asked time and time again. I thought I would put forth the reasons that it should. Now please understand I do not claim to know how easy or difficult any of this would be, or even a grain of knowledge of how to do it. But I do know it's possible as I've seen similar features included in other games.

We are, by our nature , social animals.  Be it virtually or personal, social interaction by humans is ingrained into our being. For most of us, sharing an experience with another is far more enjoyable then not. With a gem the likes of Excalibur it at it's core is a perfect machine to that end. It is also the perfect machine to bring to life what all Trekkies have dreamed of for years. Imagine if you will a room in your home (If you have this kind of room)or your basement or garage converted in to the Bridge of a star fleet  ship. Imagine if you will that that bridge is fully functional, and that every station on it can be manned and used by your closest friends with the same level of excited anticipation of exploration that you feel.  Imagine the maiden voyage of your own star ship. Yes, it's still in your garage, but with the huge HD flat screen tv mounted onto the wall in front of the helms station and  a couple of smaller ones strategically placed as a window or two, you would indeed be fooling your senses.  You would for all intents and purposes be on your bridge.    Now expand that to include other friends who do the same. Klingon, Romulan, ect...  This just scratches the surface of possibilities.  A virtual Star Fleet would certainly come to life.

Star Trek Online? Please ! It's a child's arcade game. Not the true engine of greatness that Excalibur could be. I implore  the devs, with all respect, if you haven't already or are not already are, take a very close and hard look at the possibilities that multi player would offer and seriously consider it as a feature. It would certainly make Excalibur a legend in it's own right.  If done right, it would certainly bring Star Trek to life !

Thank you

If you are not doing so

I would love to see multiplayer too BUT I want to see single player released even more, if the team went and worked on multiplayer then it would take 2 years at least to get it functional, PLEASE RELEASE SINGLE PLAYER FIRST! Then talk about multiplayer. I'm dying to get my hands on single player and that should keep me well occupied till they get around to updating Excalibur with multiplayer. In fact if the team decides to work on multiplayer while they're working on single player, again I have to wait another 2 years then I'm leaving. Just please release single player first.

[strike277]

No, it's not.

Oh yes it is. Everquest, WOW, City of heros, Dc universe, STO. All the same with a different face on them.I've Played em all.

Posiden, How goes the modding?

[Poseidon]

Oh yes it is. Everquest, WOW, City of heros, Dc universe, STO. All the same with a different face on them.I've Played em all.

Posiden, How goes the modding?

Slowly.

All of the design concepts are complete.  I have looked into MP code as well.  If we can intergrate code with the ST:E engine, we should have something sooner rather than later.  Since there are only 3 people working on this ATM, it will be slow progress.  I was hoping to have a mini game released by now, but my real job has been very demanding lately, as well as my brother working on iPhone games ATM, there's little progress for now.  We have the console designs down I think.  You will be able to walk up to a console and "click" it to access it.  Once you "click" the console, it will pull you to a 2D based screen with system functions, controls and real time displays.  The MP coding with respect to each person playing, should keep the bandwidth fairly low.  Hopefully around 300k per, but no hard data on tests done yet.  Also, we need to see how the team codes certain game functions like the HP's and the ships interface with the player.  That way, we can look at separating each system function and isolating it for each terminal, as well as adding new system functions that can alter the values of things like warp power output and sensor data.  All of this is on hold until the game is released.  The concept is done.  Just have to wait on the completion of this project before we can implement these concepts, or find another engine in which to create this mod.

Oh btw,

I was refuring to how the MP code and the game design was generated.  They are different.  Each MMOG has gone a bit further with respect to capability and player accessability than the previous MMOG.  So, no, they are not all a like, with respect to the MMOG functionality.  The games play the same, yes, but that was not what I was referencing to.