Understanding Intellectual Property

[Darkthunder]

That's fine, since it's a free to play game i look forward to seeing what you can do with 0KB worthy of models since they'll all be embedded into the EXE and Encrypted.

Well, given that the "leaked" BC2 file from a few weeks ago, is laying on my harddrive fully decompressed and usable, I don't see that as any obstacle.

In any case, since you advocate that modders have no rights at all to anything regarding Star Trek, the same goes for you and your project. I'll just release the leaked copy on various websites under my own name at a time of my choosing, and claiming it entirely as my own. How about that?

[Xsnip3rX]

Well, seeing as you didn't write any of the code involved, or design any of the graphics, or textures, it would be called illegal, and i am assuming you're a US Citizen and subject to United States laws right?

[Darkthunder]

Im sorry but according to what i just posted/read for it to be a completely new work (derivative like you said) it must be atleast 98% different from the original work. meaning you would need to change a CRAP tun of things to make it your own.  The thing is it is a free game but it is mostly going to be multiplayer only so if you feel like playing by yourself with limited AI go for it.

The thing is the game engine would be a completely new work owned by xsniperx as he is creating his own game engine like the people working on star trek excalibur. there for he could technically sue you for using his engine without his permission. also they are in the process of creating there own ships not copyrighted by CBS already so he could also sue you for stealing thos.

NOTE: I am not saying steal this steal that because you can. the only reason i am doing this is because YOU Yes YOU have been going on a rampage stating that he stole this and that. i have been banned from many a website arguing with you. The reason i am doing so is because there are great ships out there. and if im going to be playing any game i want the best. i don't want some modder to come along and say NO YOU CAN USE IT because they think they have some right over it when they really don't.

YES they should be given credit for creating a very nice looking ship. definitely. but they do not have the right to say weather anyone can use them or not. only CBS can make that call.

This entire post contradicts past statements MADE BY YOU, in which you blatantly said that you and the BC2 project, would use any and all models made by others BECAUSE YOU CAN, and you also LIED about these models being in the BC2 project (which has been proven to not be true), and you CLAIMED them as your own.

"All artwork in BC2, is our own" which is BULLSHIT, since we proved that you atleast had DJ's Galaxy model in it, which he has since the start of this debate, rescinded any and all permissions to use.

I'm tired of argueing with little children who don't understand the concept of derivative work, and copyright laws, and furthermore try to apply US Laws to citizens who are not born in the US, or even living in the US. US Laws only apply to US citizens and within the confines of the United States.

[Darkthunder]

Well, seeing as you didn't write any of the code involved, or design any of the graphics, or textures, it would be called illegal, and i am assuming you're a US Citizen and subject to United States laws right?

You are incorrect. US laws don't apply to me in the slightest. Imagine that, the world is not just one big country named the United States. There are HUNDREDS of other countries, each with their own set of laws.

You have no rights to anything regarding Star Trek (by your own admission). How is it stealing, if I take the entirety of your project, and label it as my own? You have no rights to it anyways.

[thelasthallow]

This entire post contradicts past statements MADE BY YOU, in which you blatantly said that you and the BC2 project, would use any and all models made by others BECAUSE YOU CAN, and you also LIED about these models being in the BC2 project (which has been proven to not be true), and you CLAIMED them as your own.

"All artwork in BC2, is our own" which is BULLSHIT, since we proved that you atleast had DJ's Galaxy model in it, which he has since the start of this debate, rescinded any and all permissions to use.

I'm tired of argueing with little children who don't understand the concept of derivative work, and copyright laws, and furthermore try to apply US Laws to citizens who are not born in the US, or even living in the US. US Laws only apply to US citizens and within the confines of the United States.

This entire post contradicts past statements MADE BY YOU, in which you blatantly said that you and the BC2 project, would use any and all models made by others BECAUSE YOU CAN, and you also LIED about these models being in the BC2 project (which has been proven to not be true), and you CLAIMED them as your own.

I dont remember any statements being said by me or XsniperX claiming other peoples work to be there own. i do remember people saying that HEY XSNIPERX Stole stuff and he said what where? he asked where you supposedly say stolen work and i never seen anyone link to anything showing anything was supposedly stolen.
 BUT That is now in the past due to what we know of the copyright laws (and how they work).

All artwork in BC2, is our own" which is BULLSHIT, since we proved that you atleast had DJ's Galaxy model in it, which he has since the start of this debate, rescinded any and all permissions to use.

As far as i can tell everything that is in BC2 is created by snipers team. as for DJ quit bringing that up. we dot even know if that ship is in the game anymore as that leaked copy was made over a year ago. he has not released any screen shots or video seance then.

BUT again according to what we just found out. if sniper wanted to use it he could.

I'm tired of argueing with little children who don't understand the concept of derivative work, and copyright laws, and furthermore try to apply US Laws to citizens who are not born in the US, or even living in the US. US Laws only apply to US citizens and within the confines of the United States.

Im sorry but i just posted what the law states is a derivative work that can be copyrighted (AND OWNED). so far i have seen no work that falls under this law.

as far as who lives where CBS is as far as i know a united states company. so i am just following the united states law (i live here to lol)

[thelasthallow]

You are incorrect. US laws don't apply to me in the slightest. Imagine that, the world is not just one big country named the United States. There are HUNDREDS of other countries, each with their own set of laws.

You have no rights to anything regarding Star Trek (by your own admission). How is it stealing, if I take the entirety of your project, and label it as my own? You have no rights to it anyways.

I assume your country has copyright laws right? you do know that the united states works with other countries to enforce protection of the copyrighted work in the united states. you could get in trouble just as easily here or in most other places in the world if you were to do what you say.

[Darkthunder]

I'm just stating a similar action to what you've already been engaged in: Taking someone else's work, and claiming as one's own. This from the following statement by one or more BC2 team-members:

"All artwork in BC2 is entirely made by us."

[thelasthallow]

I'm just stating a similar action to what you've already been engaged in: Taking someone else's work, and claiming as one's own. This from the following statement by one or more BC2 team-members:

"All artwork in BC2 is entirely made by us."

its been over a year sience that tech demo was made (that one that was leaked) and all the screen shots that WERE up on that one website where everyone was complaining were just as old. that comment where he says "all artwork in BC2 is entirely made by us" is probbly true as they have been working on there own models for a very long time. and as far as i know the models he was accused of stealing were rick knoxes models to wich rick said he didn't care really. and even if he didnt create them (lol you know) they were most likely placeholders like many other things he was showing.

Anyhow things are different now as it seems he is no longer using placeholders PLUS he got another modeler to join the team recently and i must say his work is pretty "fresh"

[Black Patriot]

its been over a year sience that tech demo was made (that one that was leaked) and all the screen shots that WERE up on that one website where everyone was complaining were just as old. that comment where he says "all artwork in BC2 is entirely made by us" is probbly true as they have been working on there own models for a very long time. and as far as i know the models he was accused of stealing were rick knoxes models to wich rick said he didn't care really. and even if he didnt create them (lol you know) they were most likely placeholders like many other things he was showing.

Anyhow things are different now as it seems he is no longer using placeholders PLUS he got another modeler to join the team recently and i must say his work is pretty "fresh"

If there really is nothing but original or authorized work in the current build of BC2 then why all the bitching about copyright law? You could simply release the latest build and show everyone that there isn't anything unauthorized and the problem would be solved. I think the real reason that that hasn't happened is because there is unauthorized work in BC2, but rather than admit that and try to make amends you and the rest of the BC2 team would rather sit screaming that "we can do whatever we want because it's all owned by CBS" than actually do something. And yeah a large segment of the community here is not based in the US, nor would US copyright law apply to any of them. Most other countries don't have copyright law as bad as in the US. The letter you received from CBS was a pre-written form letter, they just filled in the name and sent it off, there's no guarantee that everything in the letter is even close to accurate under US copyright law. US copyright law is also very vague on what defines a derivate work, there is no "99%" different criteria, it simply must have work of it's own (in this case the actual construction of the model) to count as a derivative work.

That's fine, since it's a free to play game i look forward to seeing what you can do with 0KB worthy of models since they'll all be embedded into the EXE and Encrypted.

When has that ever stopped someone determined to get past it? Think of all the times a game company has put in DRM in their game, now can you think of any that hasn't been cracked within 6 months of the games release? I didn't think so. Besides encrypting all the files would slow down the game tremendously. You know what, go right ahead, if your that stupid that you'd cripple your own game because you don't want to admit that you've done something wrong then that's great.

[L.]

and as far as i know the models he was accused of stealing were rick knoxes models to wich rick said he didn't care really.

There are multiple posts in multiple forums disproving this with you arguing over BC2's use of DJ Curtis's and Wiley's models. It's bad to lie.

[Darkthunder]

You could simply release the latest build and show everyone that there isn't anything unauthorized and the problem would be solved. I think the real reason that that hasn't happened is because there is unauthorized work in BC2, but rather than admit that and try to make amends you and the rest of the BC2 team would rather sit screaming that "we can do whatever we want because it's all owned by CBS" than actually do something.

If they have nothing to hide, why can't they release just the models and textures (which by their own admission is free to use), so that we the community can prove or disprove what's been said (from both sides of the argument) ?

The reason the files are encrypted, is not to prevent cheating. It's to hide something from the general public. Cheating is 9/10 times done through scripts, or 3rd party software. Is there anyone out there who considers modified models and textures to be a form of cheating? Oh right... XsniperX and thelasthallow.

[thelasthallow]

There are multiple posts in multiple forums disproving this with you arguing over BC2's use of DJ Curtis's and Wiley's models. It's bad to lie.

Well DJ Himself did let xsniperx use his model for testing purposes. i guess he has since rescinded that. but you wouldn't know that because you didn't read from page one.

[thelasthallow]

If there really is nothing but original or authorized work in the current build of BC2 then why all the bitching about copyright law? You could simply release the latest build and show everyone that there isn't anything unauthorized and the problem would be solved. I think the real reason that that hasn't happened is because there is unauthorized work in BC2, but rather than admit that and try to make amends you and the rest of the BC2 team would rather sit screaming that "we can do whatever we want because it's all owned by CBS" than actually do something. And yeah a large segment of the community here is not based in the US, nor would US copyright law apply to any of them. Most other countries don't have copyright law as bad as in the US. The letter you received from CBS was a pre-written form letter, they just filled in the name and sent it off, there's no guarantee that everything in the letter is even close to accurate under US copyright law. US copyright law is also very vague on what defines a derivate work, there is no "99%" different criteria, it simply must have work of it's own (in this case the actual construction of the model) to count as a derivative work.

When has that ever stopped someone determined to get past it? Think of all the times a game company has put in DRM in their game, now can you think of any that hasn't been cracked within 6 months of the games release? I didn't think so. Besides encrypting all the files would slow down the game tremendously. You know what, go right ahead, if your that stupid that you'd cripple your own game because you don't want to admit that you've done something wrong then that's great.

Forget the email i have posted more credible information seance that proves my point. for you to make a derivitive work and call it your own it must be mostly original work not created by the company who already owns what you are using. and i was using a percentage to show as an example of how much work must be NEW for it to be your own work and protected under copyright. it may be more like 90% than 98%.

I do this because say DJ's galaxy class. the one that sniper was allowed to use. he did make it YES. He did put his own ideas of how it should look into the ship YES. and while it may be his own design (in a way) it may only be about a 3% difference from the original galaxy class this is already copyrighted by CBS. and according to the law the ship must be almost entirely NEW work consisting of very small amounts of the original to make it his own. and Due to the fact that it looks just like a galaxy class he is not covered under the united states copyright laws and has no rights to it.

[Darkthunder]

Well DJ Himself did let xsniperx use his model for testing purposes. i guess he has since rescinded that. but you wouldn't know that because you didn't read from page one.

And the intelligence level drops another point or two... Smart move, mouthing off against a member of the Excalibur Team, on their forums.

[L.]

but you wouldn't know that because you didn't read from page one.

Come again?

Anyway that doesn't change the fact that you've argued with DarkThunder multiple times over the ethics of using models taken from DJ, Wiley and Bridge Commander itself, which means your attempt to play it down with "as far as i know the models he was accused of stealing were rick knoxes models" is a total lie.

[thelasthallow]

And the intelligence level drops another point or two... Smart move, mouthing off against a member of the Excalibur Team, on their forums.

so? he clearly didn't read from the beginning. i would be taught the same way if i had made the same comment. It seem that you think the Excalibur team are all gods. just because someone is making a game i will not "kiss up" to them to try and get browny points.

[Darkthunder]

so? he clearly didn't read from the beginning. i would be taught the same way if i had made the same comment. It seem that you think the Excalibur team are all gods. just because someone is making a game i will not "kiss up" to them to try and get browny points.

I did not realize you were a mind reader. I apologize for not knowing such a crucial fact to this debate.

FYI, it's not about getting "browny points". It's just a matter of common courtesy (which you lack), to play nice with others. Especially those who actually are involved in the site you are privileged to visit and post comments on.

[L.]

he clearly didn't read from the beginning. i would be taught the same way if i had made the same comment.

Actually I did and you've yet to explain how such a thing could be related to my posts.

[IceBlade09]

This thread has spiraled into an uncontrollable flat-spin.  Can we all agree to disagree about something?  Both sides have made wonderful arguments.  Neither side is willing to consent to the others wishes.
The debate is going no-where.

While I agree that if I were to whip up a good ole' Enterprise- A-E (I like the Sovvy ) I wouldn't like it if someone used it without my express opinion.  Nothing I could do would stop someone from stealing it if they were determined.

I just don't see why everyone wants to get their blood pressure up over something they can't control.  I have given my 2 cents again; now can we just bring this thing to a close? 

[thelasthallow]

Come again?

Anyway that doesn't change the fact that you've argued with DarkThunder multiple times over the ethics of using models taken from DJ, Wiley and Bridge Commander itself, which means your attempt to play it down with "as far as i know the models he was accused of stealing were rick knoxes models" is a total lie.

Listen her sir. i have had no proof shown to me that any of these so called models were stolen or even created by these people. i have asked for proof and no one has shown me. i argue with dark thunder because he argues with me. i have proven my side to be fact so many times i dont get why he keeps going. but he dose and so do i.

as far as i know no one has said any models have been taken from bridge commander except for that one soverin bridge wich im sure sniper is using as a place holder. OR was and is not anymore.

Yes i do attempt to down play it now because it turns out they never owned the models anyways so people can use them with or without there permission. i have proven this many times with CBS's information and the US copyright laws.