Understanding Intellectual Property

[thelasthallow]

see, this is where i just feel bad for you...  youre so blind and are actually so very wrong truly...  again, kids like you always think they are right and it is the rest of the world who is wrong...  you really have no idea what youre talking about and what you think you know...  just accept it - youre so very wrong and have a complete misunderstanding on this whole issue...  why cant you just stop and listen to people who are older than you, been around longer than you, already went through this topic years ago, and know more about this issue than you do?  just shush up and learn from others!
oh right - youre the expert and everyone else is wrong... 
actually, it is more and more seeming like you are just doing all this just to troll and cause conflict...
LOL no, youre wrong...  i am an admin at BCC and just as this was going on, i was about to ban you myself for trolling and displaying a snotty arrogant attitude to many people there (who were all saying the same thing to you there regarding this topic, as everyone else here and at many other sites have all been saying to you)...  Viper, who is in fact a Sheriff's Deputy (i know him personally and can vouch for that) just happened to beat me to it... i know what happened, i know what was said, i know the emails and PMs and everything you said to him that got you banned by him - and youre not only wrong but now youre lying...  straight up arrogance indeed - just only from yourself tho, my poor young friend...

you say youve been in contact with CBS, but i just think that is total BS... 
quoted for truth...

1 im not blind and i see very clearly. i understand the law as it reads. while at times it may be complicated to understand upon further studying i find that its pretty straight forward.

2 i would thank you to not call me a kid sir.

3 I am not trolling plain and simple. i have produced nothing but facts but for some reason alot of people just seem to ignore them

4 its not hard to get in contact with CBS. well it kinda is but once you get the right Email to message you usually get a reply within a day or so

4.1 so you were going to ban me because i was defending XsniperX? other people were trolling him making fun of him calling him a mod thief and many other things yet you went going to take action against them and just me for defending him?

5 again. i am not trolling i have posted nothing but facts straight from the official government copyright website. and to a lesser extent wikipedia.

EDIT: Link to the email i got wich is still linked on page one or two of this discussion http://oi51.tinypic.com/2m6635h.jpg

[Darkthunder]

i am tired of debate but as there are still people who dont know the law i feel i must keep explaining the same thing over and over again till either 1 they understand it or 2 go and look for themselves.

The solution:

If you are tired (and clearly you are not, since you are here trolling us all), then just stop the debating and leave well enough alone.

I understand you want to lecture us all on how, You're right, and We're wrong. I understand that, Professor thelasthallow. But instead of lecturing us, maybe let us find out on our own when/if we so choose? Or maybe, just maybe, some of us already know exactly how things work, and don't feel like being lectured to over and over?

[AricwithanA]

i have posted nothing but facts straight from the official government copyright website. and to a lesser extent wikipedia.

I've been trying to keep my fingers still for awhile, but damn.

Quoting facts and understanding facts are two different things.

I make a model ship.  CBS owns the IP.  I still own the specific model.  The time spent, the money spent, the work spent.  Those things CBS doesn't own.  Because CBS owns a Copyright, they can stop me from putting my work up for sale if it comes from their IP but CBS does't own the actual work I created.  A modders model has dual ownership.  CBS still owns the IP but the modder owns the specific model.  CBS stops me from selling the model for profit but I can stop CBS from using my model in their work (profit or no profit).

Those are the facts.  I've been discussing, debating and researching this for years.  That is how it works.  Everything else is self created speculation and/or a misunderstanding of how these laws and policies work.

Ok, back to being silent again.

[Jimmy]

1 im not blind and i see very clearly. i understand the law as it reads. while at times it may be complicated to understand upon further studying i find that its pretty straight forward.

2 i would thank you to not call me a kid sir.

3 I am not trolling plain and simple. i have produced nothing but facts but for some reason alot of people just seem to ignore them

4 its not hard to get in contact with CBS. well it kinda is but once you get the right Email to message you usually get a reply within a day or so

4.1 so you were going to ban me because i was defending XsniperX? other people were trolling him making fun of him calling him a mod thief and many other things yet you went going to take action against them and just me for defending him?

5 again. i am not trolling i have posted nothing but facts straight from the official government copyright website. and to a lesser extent wikipedia.

EDIT: Link to the email i got wich is still linked on page one or two of this discussion http://oi51.tinypic.com/2m6635h.jpg

1. you are blinded by your own arrogance...  you have a complete misunderstanding...  what you think you understand is incorrect...  your arrogance is what prevents you from being correctly informed by others who know much more about this than you do, even tho you think youre an expert...
2. i call it like i see it, sorry...
3. yes you in fact are trolling, plain and simple...  yet another thing you are unable to see and understand...
4. i cannot debate this point since i have not tried to contact them myself...  but i can say that youre prolly right in that it is not difficult...  perhaps ill try it myself...
4.1 XsniperX was in fact stealing mods, aka a mod thief...   you jumped into the debate and attacked people...  no one was making fun of him, or being rude or out of line to him (yet he was completely rude and out of line to them) they were only trying to inform him that what he was doing was horribly rude and very disrespectful and not cool...  you got out of hand, said nasty things to people, then said nasty to Viper, hence your ban...
5. wow dude you should really read that email more closely - this is where i am saying (again) you have completely misunderstood and misinterpreted what you read and "researched" lol  why cant you just accept that and just learn something from others??  why do you resist - unless only to troll?  and it is interesting how your supposed email to them was cut off from the bottom of that screenshot, who knows what you actually said?  or if that email is actually real?

[thelasthallow]

The solution:

If you are tired (and clearly you are not, since you are here trolling us all), then just stop the debating and leave well enough alone.

I understand you want to lecture us all on how, You're right, and We're wrong. I understand that, Professor thelasthallow. But instead of lecturing us, maybe let us find out on our own when/if we so choose? Or maybe, just maybe, some of us already know exactly how things work, and don't feel like being lectured to over and over?

Why do people keep bringing this up. I have made it clear several times that i am tired of this whole thing. but that dosnt mean im going to stop just because people keep telling me to.

If you don't like being lectured by me then by all means please stop replying to this thread. do you even remember why i started this thread? and for what reason? it is a very important reason that everyone needs to know and understand but few like you will seem to never accept it. Remember this, i am not making this stuff up from my head. i have researched everything i said and read as much as a could to understand it. if you think im so wrong go read up on the topic. you will see that exactly what i have posted is nearly a 1:1 interpretation of the copyright law.

and not only that i myself and others have gotten the same message from CBS Themselves! how can you dispute that? i know. Email CBS yourself and they will tell you the exact same thing that they said to me.

[thelasthallow]

1. you are blinded by your own arrogance...  you have a complete misunderstanding...  what you think you understand is incorrect...  your arrogance is what prevents you from being correctly informed by others who know much more about this than you do, even tho you think youre an expert...
2. i call it like i see it, sorry...
3. yes you in fact are trolling, plain and simple...  yet another thing you are unable to see and understand...
4. i dont believe you have been in contact with anyone from CBS, youve not provided proof of anything to the sort...  did i miss something?
4.1 XsniperX was in fact stealing mods, aka a mod thief...   you jumped into the debate and attacked people...  no one was making fun of him, or being rude or out of line to him (yet he was completely rude and out of line to them) they were only trying to inform him that what he was doing was horribly rude and very disrespectful and not cool...  you got out of hand, said nasty things to people, then said nasty to Viper, hence your ban...
5. wow dude you should really read more closely - this is where i am saying (again) you have completely misunderstood and misinterpreted what you read and "researched" lol  why cant you just accept that and just learn something from others??  why do you resist - unless only to troll?  and it is interesting how your email was cut off from the bottom of that screenshot, who knows what you actually said?

1 Sorry but if being blind is reading the law as it is and telling people about it i must be the most blinded person in the whole world

2 you have no idea what i look like or how old i am. you just think you can interpret who i am from a few measly words.

3 uhm no sorry im not. im trying to inform people as to the nature of the copyright law in the united states.

4 its not hard to Email CBS and to get information from them. i have allready posted a link to the email they have sent me.

4.1 How can he steal mods when the mods were never owned by the modders in the first place? (aka not protected under copyright) also he did have permission from a few modders to use there ships although its been so long i cant remember who. Over all it still docent matter.

5 show me i am wrong? can you do that? (oh boy now im sounding like a broken record) I have read and said exactly what the law means. the law is not hard to understand because it is broken down into categories for many situations.

EDIT: I just called the number in the email i have listed and it did take me to the CBS Legal department and as a matter of fact it was a direct number to the legal department. although mallery (i guess the head of the department) is supposedly out till the 1st i am going to call when she gets back and get the whole low down on this topic.

[Darkthunder]

Why do people keep bringing this up. I have made it clear several times that i am tired of this whole thing. but that dosnt mean im going to stop just because people keep telling me to.

If you don't like being lectured by me then by all means please stop replying to this thread. do you even remember why i started this thread? and for what reason? it is a very important reason that everyone needs to know and understand but few like you will seem to never accept it. Remember this, i am not making this stuff up from my head. i have researched everything i said and read as much as a could to understand it. if you think im so wrong go read up on the topic. you will see that exactly what i have posted is nearly a 1:1 interpretation of the copyright law.

and not only that i myself and others have gotten the same message from CBS Themselves! how can you dispute that? i know. Email CBS yourself and they will tell you the exact same thing that they said to me.

Would it be wrong of me to state at this point, that pretty much nobody here, cares what you have to say anymore? The entire argument has been up and down the aisle both ways, backwards and forwards, and yet the debate continues. Why was the thread reopened anyways? It was silent (and peaceful) at this forum for a good 3 months before somebody decided to reopen the topic.

Why can't people leave well enough alone? Not saying any of us (you, me, Jimmy or anyone else) are incorrect (obviously both sides can't both be right). But can we atleast agree to leave this discussion rest once and for all? If any of us are incorrect, and end up getting in trouble with CBS/Paramount for being incorrect, isn't that our own problem then? Why should we have Professor thelasthallow come down to these otherwise peaceful forums, and lecture us on what is and isn't right?

4.1 How can he steal mods when the mods were never owned by the modders in the first place? (aka not protected under copyright) also he did have permission from a few modders to use there ships although its been so long i cant remember who. Over all it still docent matter.

MODELS, are owned by whomever creates the model, copyright laws or not. It's called Intellectual Property (thread title). If a MODDER makes his/her own model of a design owned by CBS/Paramount, the modder is simply prohibited from making financial gain on said model. But the model, and contents therein (textures, scripts etc), belong to the original designer. No amount of your bickering and bitching, will ever change that.

You work for the government? You seem to be hellbent on protecting the government's copyright laws (which doesn't apply to any other country but whichever one you refer to). Other countries have similar laws, but not identical. Learn the difference between the two. Have you researched each and every countries own copyright laws, or only the US Copyright Law? Contrary to popular belief, the US is not a singular country on Planet Earth, and Europe has MANY countries, not just ONE like certain dumb individuals in the US believe (check Youtube if you don't know who I mean).

Now i've said my peace, got better things to do, money to earn, that sort-of thing. Good night, and good luck.

[thelasthallow]

Would it be wrong of me to state at this point, that pretty much nobody here, cares what you have to say anymore? The entire argument has been up and down the aisle both ways, backwards and forwards, and yet the debate continues. Why was the thread reopened anyways? It was silent (and peaceful) at this forum for a good 3 months before somebody decided to reopen the topic.

Why can't people leave well enough alone? Not saying any of us (you, me, Jimmy or anyone else) are incorrect (obviously both sides can't both be right). But can we atleast agree to leave this discussion rest once and for all? If any of us are incorrect, and end up getting in trouble with CBS/Paramount for being incorrect, isn't that our own problem then? Why should we have Professor thelasthallow come down to these otherwise peaceful forums, and lecture us on what is and isn't right?

MODELS, are owned by whomever creates the model, copyright laws or not. It's called Intellectual Property (thread title). If a MODDER makes his/her own model of a design owned by CBS/Paramount, the modder is simply prohibited from making financial gain on said model. But the model, and contents therein (textures, scripts etc), belong to the original designer. No amount of your bickering and bitching, will ever change that.

You work for the government? You seem to be hellbent on protecting the government's copyright laws (which doesn't apply to any other country but whichever one you refer to). Other countries have similar laws, but not identical. Learn the difference between the two. Have you researched each and every countries own copyright laws, or only the US Copyright Law? Contrary to popular belief, the US is not a singular country on Planet Earth, and Europe has MANY countries, not just ONE like certain dumb individuals in the US believe (check Youtube if you don't know who I mean).

Now i've said my peace, got better things to do, money to earn, that sort-of thing. Good night, and good luck.

Im sorry but if the design is already copyright then they dont own the model. CBS/Viacom hold all copyrights. The copyright law states that the only way for a new work to be copyrightable (AKA is your own work wich you own) is for it to me of mostly new material.

So if i make a model of a galaxy class star ship YES i made the model but the design is nearly identical to the real thing with little to no variation. and according to the copyright law i do not own nor have any rights over it. who dose? CBS/Viacom even if i made it they are still the copyright holders and i have no right over it to tell people what they can and can not do with it. the only people who have the power to do so is (again) CBS/Viacom.

[Darkthunder]

If you dont own the design you don't own the model.

Sorry, but this is just plain... WRONG, on so many levels.

A person can design hundreds of ships, and thus own the copyright to hundreds of designs.

Simultaneously a 2nd person can model the same hundred ships and own the copyright over the model (but not the design).

More often then not, it's not the same person designing a ship, as it is the person modelling it. Should the modeller not be entitled to make said model, because he/she doesn't own the design of it? If I make a 100% look-alike of a Picasso, or the Mona Lisa, and decide to hang it on the wall of my apartment, do I not own the right to have the painting hanging on my wall? I painted it, I spent my time on it, Why don't I have the right to hang it on my wall?

Thing is, I wouldn't do such a thing for financial gain (which is what we've been debating all along). CBS/Paramount are perfectly fine (if you read your own damned email), if people wanna make models based on their designs, so long as there is NO FINANCIAL GAIN to be had. If DJ Curtis, Chronocidal Guy, WileyCoyote or any number of modders decides "Hey, I wanna sell this model for a profit", you better believe it that CBS/Paramount will end up breathing down their necks, sueing them for what they are worth etc.

Why hasn't this happened yet? Because modders make models, textures etc for (hate repeating myself) NO FINANCIAL GAIN. Is it not just common decency to ask permission from said modder, to use their MODEL ? We already know hundred times over, that CBS/Paramount are perfectly fine with using the DESIGN as long as there is NO FINANCIAL GAIN. You claim you want the hard working modders to get what is entitled to them, and yet over and over you repeat the same mantra that the modders have no rights to their own goddamn models that they spent their time modelling. Modders do a hell of alot of work that you, me and the rest of the community can enjoy FOR FREE. The least we can do, is thank them for their hard work, and be polite enough to ask permission to use the models in our own projects. About 95% of the time, the modders will be all too happy to oblige, as long as CREDIT IS GIVEN. On the rare occasion that the modder says "No", that doesn't give you or anyone else the right to take the model since they have "no rights to it anyways". Instead, learn to model your own goddamn models yourself, and quit taking benefit from other peoples hard work.

(sorry, had to vent off some steam before bed time)

So if i make a model of a galaxy class star ship YES i made the model but the design is nearly identical to the real thing with little to no variation. and according to the copyright law i do not own nor have any rights over it. who dose? CBS/Viacom even if i made it they are still the copyright holders and i have no right over it to tell people what they can and can not do with it. the only people who have the power to do so is (again) CBS/Viacom.

Learn the difference between COPYRIGHTand INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHT. (thread title) The two are not one and the same. Clearly, you fail to understand your own thread, since the title is "Understanding intellectual property rights", and clearly you don't understand, since you keep referring to Copyright Laws.

[Jon]

As amusing a read as this is, there is clearly trolling going on here.

Rest assured our project lead has checked on this, otherwise this game would not be made.

Locked

[Mark]

Gentlemen, you have all had more than ample opportunity to put across your opinions and to consider the alternate opinions that are being put across. At this stage the discussion is going round in circles and only serves to further heat the debate, on that basis I agree with jon that it is best to lock the thread before anyone says something they will regret.