Galor Class

[MajorD]

DS9 was converted by Starfleet after taking over. If they wanted labs, they would have put them in. With starbases, not all are giant bases, some are small ground facilities, so they wouldn't all have labs either.  If I recall correctly, normally the places with labs are dedicated to specific research.

In Voyager, once they establish contact through the MIDAS array, admiral Paris says they diverted several deep space ships to intercept Voyager, in seven years. There's no way any of those ships are anything but completely alone.

Excalibur is going to be a strategic target, that makes it more dangerous than other locations. Having to drop the civilan crew off every time there is a fight is also a handicap, and as we saw with the Enterprise, even near and in Federation space there are plenty of things to fight. If anyone wants to make war with the Federation, and Excalibur is anywhere nearby, I would ambush that ship with a cloaked anti-ship missile. It wouldn't even have time to raise shields.

Give it a warhead the equivalent of twenty torpedoes, a warp engine, and a cloak. It wouldn't be fast, but it could be carried by ship a few minutes from the target, and launched at high warp so its warp engine acts like a warp sustainer.  Launch four or six of them just to be sure.

[Aresius]

Uhhhh. You are aware, Major, that the player is the ships captain, not an enemy who plans to take it down?

You cannot upgrade an outpost that is in a rather remote place as quickly as you would want to (or could, were it closer). Nor can you simply go in on an alien system, tear out some of the existing systems, rooms, and equipments, and put in totally new hardware from another race. Incompatible beyond measures. Obrien had enough trouble before the war, and that's when they still had enough time to tinker with the station.

I'm also not sure about your concept ot specific research facilities. True, there are certain such things, like the place, where Paul Manheim worked, or with those Children and Pulaski, or, or, or. But we're talking about general-purpose ships and starbases. You may find xenobiologist-labs, cyberkinetics-labs, astrometries, and whatchamacall on them, maybe one, maybe more. Because they have to supply a common  research space for every aspect.  And since stations are somewhat focal points of their area, you need more, because every smaller ship that doesn't have the required labs will come to you.

[begolf00]

Give it a warhead the equivalent of twenty torpedoes, a warp engine, and a cloak. It wouldn't be fast, but it could be carried by ship a few minutes from the target, and launched at high warp so its warp engine acts like a warp sustainer.  Launch four or six of them just to be sure. Major D


Poor Excalibur, poor poor Excalibur

[Jon]

Guys can we steer this at least vaugly back on topic?

[begolf00]

Yea I think the model of the Galor looks awesome. Maybe a little too much glow for my tastes but the lighting is cool looking.

[Aresius]

I concur. I recommend, we split the topic.

@topic: I am curious inhowfar the Galor will be a major opponent. We heard about the Hutet being involved, as well as the Keldon, and likely also the Hideki. Usual games make this one a rather tough opponent, which I blame to a lack of other models (well, Armada II was good there, but still made it a battle-ship). So, where is it roughly in the toughness?

[Black Patriot]

I am curious inhowfar the Galor will be a major opponent. We heard about the Hutet being involved, as well as the Keldon, and likely also the Hideki. Usual games make this one a rather tough opponent, which I blame to a lack of other models (well, Armada II was good there, but still made it a battle-ship). So, where is it roughly in the toughness?

Well there was regular footage of the Defiant blowing them away without much trouble, and it's likely that the Cardassian warships mentioned in "The Wounded" were either Galor or Keldon classes, which a Nebula class had no trouble destroying, not to mention the Galor that the Enterprise sort of shrugged at (the only damage sustained was before the shields had been raised, and then the Enterprise proceeded to cripple the Galor with a few phaser shots) earlier in the episode. Given that I'd say that the Galor isn't much of a threat on it's own, even the Keldon doesn't seem that impressive. I'd place it around the Excelsior class in strength, pre-refit for the Galor and post-refit for the Keldon.

[MajorD]

The only difference we know with the Keldon between the Galor is that the Keldon is stated to be faster at warp, nothing else. It's hull shows two extra impulse engines, but since superior sublight performance wasn't mentioned it might mean the extra engines are only to compensate for the pod weight.  We also have no idea what the pod really is.

Here are some obvservations from DS9: "Defiant".

- "Defiant"
Thomas Riker: It looks like we'll have to fight our way to Orias.
Kira: Listen to me... Those three ships up ahead are going to lock onto our neutrino leak and open fire, that means you're going to have to fight back. (the Defiant is cloaked, but the leak means they can't sneak past)
Thomas Riker: With this ship it's going to be a short fight, I promise you that.
Kira: Let's say you disable, or even destroy those three ships up ahead of us, fighting them at all is going to slow us down, then those ten ships behind us are going to catch up, and not even the Defiant can win against those odds.
Thomas Riker: We have come too far now to quit.
Kira: You are an experienced Starfleet officer, Tom, analyse the situation. Going to Orias is suicide. Now, the smart move is to make a run for it while we still can.
Thomas Riker: Maybe that's what an experienced Starfleet officer would do, maybe that's what Will Riker would do, but it's not what I'm going to do! I'm going to continue the mission.
-- Riker believes that fighting 3 Keldons is an easy fight, Kira doesn't disagree. It's having to fight ten Galors that is the problem.
-- Riker doesn't deny that fighting 10 Galors is suicide, but he doesn't see a way out of the situation until later.

- "Defiant" fight
- (Man: Took six hits on the port shields. There's been some minor damage to the outer hull but all systems are operational.) - In reference to shots taken by the Defiant from Cardassian ships, probably Galor Class.
-- Thomas Riker: Tough little ship.
- 1 hit, probably from a Keldon (Man: We've been hit on our starboard shield.)
- 7 main beams from a Keldon - (Unknown: Shields holding.)
- (Thomas Riker: Quantum Torpedoes, full spread. Fire.) 4 quantum torpedoes fired, the first two explode in proximity, the second two hit the tail and appear to disable power and maneuvering of the Keldon. (Helmswoman: Their defense systems are off line and they lost main power. The ship is out of the battle, now.)
- (Man: Three more cruisers just arrived in the Orian system. That makes five ships ahead and ten behind.) Riker still wanted to fight, but finally realizes the odds will only get worse, so he takes the surrender bargain to save his crew.

Keldon Class Cruiser
- 3 beams from Jem'Hadar Fighter (third hit blows up the small bow saucer) - disabled - "The Die is Cast"

- 18 volleys from Defiant in 3 seconds - only 3 volleys at the very end appear to actually hit - The Keldon being a cruiser is mentioned at least once in the episode. - (Unknown: Direct hit on the Cruiser's port nacelle. Their shields are down by 30%.), there is a significant explosion on the last hit that causes the Keldon to veer out of control. - "Defiant"
--  Each volley did 10% damage to the shields, assuming it was only 3 volleys that hit.
- (Thomas Riker: Quantum Torpedoes, full spread. Fire.) 4 quantum torpedoes fired, the first two explode in proximity, under the ship, knocking it around a bit. The second two hit the tail and knock the ship hard. (Helmswoman: Their defense systems are off line and they lost main power.)
-- If we take it as all equal, then the Quantum torpedoes were 2.5X stronger than the Defiant's phaser volleys. That doesn't even take into account that the first hit was in proximity by several tens of meters, which would greatly reduce its damage, meaning its yield is higher.
- (Gul Dukat: Those are faster than any Keldon Class ships I've ever seen.) In reference to the Obsidian Order ships at warp chasing the Defiant. The Galors were shown to be equal to or slower than the Defiant, since the Galors were never able to catch up to the Defiant in a straight warp chase.

It has to be noted that those Obsidian Order Keldons were only faster than normal Keldons, and they still didn't actually catch the Defiant until it stopped.  For all we know, a fast Keldon may be slower than a Galor, and we're left still not knowing what the dorsal pod is about.

If anything, considering we see Galors, not Keldons, at the very end of the show, it's the Galor which should be late-refit Excelsior strength.  One reason I like this is the Galor is 25% larger by volume, that makes it less potent for its size, although, the Galor seems to have a giant shuttlebay for its size. The ship is probably intended to conduct planetary invasion and ground support, for controlling unruly colonies. 

The power balance should be pretty relative, too. That main phaser means the Galor should have an extremely powerful hit for its size, while it's shields and secondary weapons probably aren't noticeable, except in the later Galor.

Back to the Keldon: I think we need to consider what the Obsidian Order does to determine what the pod does. They're a militarized intelligence agency. Their ships probably do data gathering along boarders, and that would make the pods highly sensitive comms, sensor, and electronic warfare devices with facilities for the crews for those systems. They aren't going to have huge armies, so they shouldn't be troop transport pods; and they shouldn't want to fight open wars, so they shouldn't be extra reactors or a shield system.