Author Topic: sovereign role  (Read 1341 times)

Offline Vadek

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Re: sovereign role
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2011, 09:09:34 AM »
Well since this Game isn't out yet I'll assume you mean Bridge Commander.

Just about every Sovvie Mod.

Offline Tiberius

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Re: sovereign role
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2011, 12:06:59 PM »
Just discovered this thread, thought I'd throw my two cents in...

I own the Star Trek TNG Technical Manual (Nerdgasm).  In it, I recall very clearly reading that the Galaxy-class was designed with a service life in mind of 100 years.  She was built to be easily upgraded and refitted.  We can clearly see that the Excelsior-class lasted at least 80 years.  Given what we have seen in TNG and DS9, I disagree with the theory that the Sovereign-class was meant as a replacement for the "failed Galaxy-class."

I prefer not to think of Federation ships in terms of their being a battle cruiser, light cruiser, dreadnought, etc.  Instead, I focus on their mission.  We all know the Galaxy-class is meant to be a deep space exploration vessel.  The entire point of having civilians aboard is so crew members can bring along their families for extended missions.  I've read in other posts here that since the Enterprise-D is the flagship of her day, she doesn't exactly fit this mold.  I believe the same holds true for the Enterprise-E, as she is also the flagship of her day.

I think the Sovereign may have started out as one type of design, but I feel that the threat of the Borg (which really shook up Starfleet, if Admiral Hanson's and Commander Shelby's attitudes are any indication) may have changed her design.  Her original intended role I believe was exploration (as is the central tenant of Starfleet), but I think with all the threats piling up against the Federation, she was given much more powerful defenses and weaponry to hold her own in battle (at least that was the intention).

It's clear that the Sovereign-class is quite a powerful ship, but it's also clear that she has a hard time standing up to many other races' ships (Two Son'a ships easily overpowered her, and the Scimitar beat the hell out of her).

In terms of how she's portrayed in BC, I think her balance against the Galaxy-class is pretty accurate in the original game, but I think Kobayashi Maru seriously overpowered her (to the point of hilarity).
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Offline Ilithi_Dragon

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Re: sovereign role
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2011, 01:37:22 PM »
Well, first of all, welcome to the club. Most of us here probably have one or more copies of the TNG:TM, and other TMs and encyclopedias, etc. This is the place to be if you love having that stuff, and love discussing it.

Now, as for the Galaxy, you're on the right track. The Galaxy most definitely is not a 'failed starship', and she is most definitely one of the greatest and most potent Capital Ships Starfleet has produced, and she has a long service life ahead of her, much like the Excelsior. Now, like the Excelsior, she won't always fill the role of premier Capital Ship - as she ages she'll slowly move down in role, eventually dropping low enough, relative to modern ships, to the point where she will probably only compare to a modern Light Cruiser at the end of her lifespawn. But that is a long time away, and Starfleet tends to produce a new generation of premier capital ship every 20-30 years or so. The average lifespan of any given capital ship, from TOS to TNG, has been about 20-30 years. So we should be expecting to see a replacement for the Galaxy class launched sometime in the mid-2380s to mid-2390s. The Sovereign is far too soon to be a replacement for the Galaxy class, especially given the remarkable performance we generally see from the Galaxy.


I can understand your position on not wanting to think of Federation ships in terms of warship designations, but those ratings are still a part of each starship's role and mission. They are not the entirety of their role, but that is still their role, nonetheless. We shouldn't focus on those parts of a Federation starship's role exclusively, but we shouldn't ignore them, either.  Starfleet ships are intended to be the defense force of the Federation, after all, and they have generally shown themselves to be very capable combat ships when called to the task. They're just much more than pure combat ships. As such, I tend to use the military rating designations, partly because it designates a major role for the ship, and also partly because it allows for a fairly ordered rating of ship roles even beyond military roles and duties. For the sake of inclusiveness and organization, I'll use that rating system here, alongside the non-combat roles and mission parameters.

Now, we know that the Galaxy class Enterprise-D was the flagship of the 7th Fleet and the flagship of the Federation, but we have no indication that either title was transferred to the Enterprise-E. It's entirely possible, and I wouldn't be surprised if both titles were transferred to the new Enterprise, but we have no actual confirmation of such. Just for the record.

Undoubtedly, the Sovereign's design was influenced by many different things over the course of its development. The close of the Federation-Cardassian War, the First Borg Incursion, subsequent encounters with the Borg, and several advances in warp design, phaser design, torpedo technology, and more. But I do not think that her base mission and intended purpose were changed. Per Rick Sternbach from a long-ago post on the TrekBBS forums, the Sovereign was designed to replace the Excelsior as the premier workhorse cruiser of the fleet.

Now, first, to understand this we must take a look at the Excelsior and her service period, and the ship design practices of the Federation over the course of the Excelsior's lifespan. When the Excelsior launched in 2285, she was Starfleet's premier capital ship. A gargantuan starship, she featured the latest and greatest technology, in all fields. She was also a powerful Battleship in combat, designed not only to carry out Starfleet's scientific, diplomatic, and exploratory functions as a deep-space explorer, but also to defend the Federation as her premier Capital Ship, her premier Battleship, at the height of the Federation-Klingon Cold War. She was as much a potent warship as she was science vessel, and sported an impressive array of armaments, including an astounding twenty-eight ball-turret phaser cannons and a whopping EIGHT photon torpedo launchers, four fore and four aft, with two of the fore launchers being mounted on giant turrets that could swing nearly 90 degrees to either side, giving her the ability to fire torpedoes sideways. She was an impressive starship, ushering in a new warp technology (the 'transwarp drive' of the Excelsior likely became known as just 'warp drive' after its common implementation, much like the 'time warp drive' that replaced the original 'warp drive' when the Constitution class was new). She was made even more impressive when the Type-B variant was launched with the Enterprise-B in 2293, featuring an expanded stardrive section, additional impulse engines, enhanced warp nacelles, four additional phaser turrets, and a plethora of other new advances, and this served to help extend her service life. But by the 2320s, the Excelsior was showing her age. New technologies developed around the turn of the century made many of the state-of-the-art technologies on the Excelsior less grand, and in 2323 she was replaced by the Ambassador class, an absolute monster of the ship at the time, twice as large relative to the other ships of the day as the Galaxy class was to the ships of her day.

But the Excelsior was far from obsolescent. She could no longer perform as a capital ship, but Starfleet had built a lot of them, and they were still very potent cruisers, and very capable starships. For the first half of the 24th Century, Starfleet only produced a bare handful of new cruisers, opting instead to mass-produce the Excelsior class. The Excelsior became the workhorse of the fleet, along with the Miranda class, which had a similar story in the role of Light Cruiser and Destroyer. The Excelsior excelled in this role, and she became the face of Starfleet.

But by the 2350s, the Excelsior was really showing her age. She could no longer properly fill the role of Heavy Cruiser, not in combat roles, and even in non-combat roles, while still a capable workhorse, the limitations of her age were showing. The Federation was also undergoing one of its bloodiest periods in history, second only to the Dominion War. The 20-year-long war with the Cardassian Union was in full swing in the 2350s, the Federation also engaged in war with the Tzenkethi, the Talarians, and probably also the Tholians (at the very least, there was an extended border conflict and cold war, which saw the destruction of at least one Federation starbase). So the Federation launched the Springfield, Cheyenne, Challenger, and New Orleans class cruisers, all designed to replace the Excelsior, and in some respects the Miranda (which was showing her age even more). The Excelsior had taken up the role of doing almost everything in the fleet, and to replace her, Starfleet had to design several new classes to fill specific roles. The Springfield was an all-around, jack-of-all-trades starship - capable of most tasks, but not particularly great at any one task. By size she would rate a Heavy Cruiser, though just barely, and is more a big, general-purpose cruiser. The Cheyenne is a relatively small Light Cruiser, slim, but very fast, with four nacelles. One of the fastest ships in the fleet, she's a long-distance runner. The Challenger is another Heavy Cruiser, but much of her size comes from her over-sized nacelles. Another fast ship, the Challenger's biggest feature are her massive phaser arrays - her two big saucer arrays (the only phasers on the ship) are the largest phaser arrays mounted on any ship smaller than a Nebula. She's a big-gun phaser boat that can be moved around fast. Outside of combat operations, she probably fills the role of a general-purpose cruiser, much like the Springfield, but less capable for her size. Then there is the New Orleans, one of my favorites. Coming in at just under 1.1 million cubic meters in volume, the New Orleans is one of the largest Heavy Cruisers Starfleet has produced, and when she launched she was THE largest Cruiser Starfleet had produced to date. She was also a very multi-role starship, especially with the three swappable pods she could be equipped with, giving her the ability to specialize in a wide array of mission parameters on relatively short notice.

Then the 2360s came. With the launch of the Nebula and Galaxy class starships, Capital Ships and Battleships both, and the introduction of the newer cruisers, the Cardassian Wars came to a close (it was a major war, but never more than a border conflict for the Federation, and once the new Starfleet cruisers and capital ships hit the field, the Cardassians crashed their economy for a second time just trying to keep up). Newer technologies and bigger ships were coming off the line, however, and Starfleet's replacement program for the Excelsior and the Miranda was not over. The 2360s saw the launch of the new Akira class Heavy Cruiser - dwarfing even the New Orleans at 1.6 million cubic meters in volume. A powerful cruiser with a swappable sail pod, the Akira was a powerful and broadly capable Heavy Cruiser that could go from a devastating torpedo boat to a specialized science ship in short order (TNG-era Starfleet likes swappable pods, and can you blame them?). The Intrepid was introduced in the late 2360s, taking up the role of a sprinting Light Cruiser. She could sprint faster than the Cheyenne, but was limited in how long she could maintain that speed by her small nacelles, making her a potent courier and short-range explorer and patrol ship. The Saber showed up in the late 2360s as well, taking over from the Miranda along with the 2340s-era Freedom class. The 2370s came around and the Steamrunner launched, providing a potent, durable, bulldog of a Light Cruiser torpedo platform. Several other cruisers were launched in the 2350s, '60s and '70s, though most appear to have been fairly specialized designs, built for very specific roles or tasks and not produced on a very large scale (see the USS Yeager, among others).

All of these ships together took over the plethora of roles that the Excelsior had taken on during the first half of the 24th century, but none of them actually replaced the Excelsior as the premier, workhorse cruiser, the face of the Federation. It was to that end that the Sovereign was designed. Not a Battleship, not a Battlecruiser, not a Dreadnought, the Sovereign is first and foremost a workhorse cruiser. She's big, a monster of a Heavy Cruiser coming in at ~2,000,000 cubic meters in volume, dwarfing even the big Heavy Cruisers like the New Orleans and the Akira, though she is not quite large enough to be considered a Capital Ship, not by modern standards. She's sleek, and fast - clocking in at Warp 9.985 according to back-stage info released with the TNG blu-ray set, which would make her the second-fastest ship in the fleet, out-stripping even the Intrepid in a full sprint, and second only to the four-nacelled Prometheus. The Sovereign featured a plethora of new advancements, and a potent armament, though she doesn't sport enough firepower to fall into the category of a Capital Ship. The Sovereign is the new premier cruiser of the fleet, however, featuring state-of-the-art technology, equipment, and a full suite of sensors and science labs, as well as luxurious appointments and diplomatic suites comparable to even a Galaxy class. She can't go toe-to-toe with the capital ships of other powers, especially their newer capital ships, but she can still hold her own quite well, if it comes to that. The Sovereign is Starfleet's greatest Heavy Cruiser ever built, she's the new 'face of the fleet', a potent and powerful and vastly capable starship, that in many ways is a far closer representation of the original Star Trek ship, the Constitution, than the Galaxy class could ever be (she's a powerful, capable cruiser, but she's a workhorse, not a Capital Ship, not a Battleship).


And yes, I'm a Sovereign fanboy. } : = 8 )
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Offline Warsome

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Re: sovereign role
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2011, 12:02:37 AM »
I agree with that Dragon.  It fits in with what I read, the Federation wanted to concentrate more on smaller specific role ships rather than a huge multi-mission ships like the Galaxy class, but there was still need for a ship to be the work horse, the Federation still needed a ship that could handle long missions in deep space and handle first contact situations, diplomatic negotiations and disputes.  The Sovereign class fills that role and continues the line of the Constitution class and Excelsior class.

Offline joe5

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Re: sovereign role
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2011, 02:20:10 AM »
how about battlecruser or is she to small

Offline Tiberius

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Re: sovereign role
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2011, 03:24:22 AM »
Dragon,

I'd be much interested to know where you get all your information regarding the time between TOS and TNG.  It all sounds fascinating...
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Offline Ilithi_Dragon

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Re: sovereign role
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2011, 05:29:57 AM »
I agree with that Dragon.  It fits in with what I read, the Federation wanted to concentrate more on smaller specific role ships rather than a huge multi-mission ships like the Galaxy class, but there was still need for a ship to be the work horse, the Federation still needed a ship that could handle long missions in deep space and handle first contact situations, diplomatic negotiations and disputes.  The Sovereign class fills that role and continues the line of the Constitution class and Excelsior class.

Well, they also still have a role for the big capital ships like the Galaxy and Nebula classes, it's just that they just launched two of them (the Galaxy and Nebula are both about the same size, and launched within 3 years of each other) and their average generational lifespan is around 30 years, so Starfleet has no need to produce a new, big capital ship replacement for the Galaxy and Nebula. With the aging of the Excelsior and Miranda, however, Starfleet does have a plethora of openings for smaller cruisers and destroyers to take over from the mass-produced Excelsior and Miranda, and this includes a big, face-of-the-Federation workhorse cruiser to replace the Excelsior in that role. The Galaxy is by no means a failed project, she is quite a successful and useful starship with a specific and vital role to fill, and Starfleet isn't moving towards the production of smaller ships for the fleet overall. In fact, Starfleet has been consistently trending towards larger ships, in all roles. The TNG era just happens to be a period where Starfleet is producing a large number of new classes to take over from an aging mass-produced class that had filled most of those roles by itself.


Dragon,

I'd be much interested to know where you get all your information regarding the time between TOS and TNG.  It all sounds fascinating...


It's not all canon information per sae, but what I have has been pieced together from bits and pieces of canon and semi-canon information, coupled with logical extrapolation of known facts under the assumption that Starfleet and the Federation generally operate in a sane, rational manor.

For example, there is a very distinct lack of new cruisers and destroyers and frigates designed and built in the first half of the 24th Century. We see a plethora of cruisers and destroyers and frigates from the end of the 23rd Century, and we see a new plethora of such vessels popping up in the 2350s, '60s and '70s, but there are almost no such ships from the first 50 years of the 24th Century. You don't even need all the fingers of one hand to count them, especially the cruisers, even delving into all the semi-canon materials. But we do see massive numbers of Excelsiors and Mirandas, which would have fallen into the general performance ranges for frigates, destroyers and cruisers of that period, many of which were built during that period. We also know that these ships form a very large portion of the Federation fleet even by the 2370s, and we know that these ships were seriously beginning to show their age and having serious trouble competing with modern designs by the 2350s.

Extrapolating from these data points, we get a very clear picture of the Excelsior and Miranda's role in the first half of the 24th Century, which gives us a logical explanation for the distinct lack of new starship classes in the first half of the 24th Century, the very large number of Mirandas and Excelsiors we see by the TNG era, and the explosion of new frigate, destroyer and cruiser classes we see in the TNG era.

And yes, it all is very fascinating. I love this sort of stuff, and piecing together the story behind the tidbits of information that we get tossed to us here and there.


how about battlecruser or is she to small

By modern standards, she's not really large enough to be a Battlecruiser, though she would have been large enough to be classed that when the Ambassador launched. The Sovereign is some 2,000,000 cubic meters in volume, compared to the ~5,200,000 m^3 of the Galaxy and Nebula classes, Starfleet's two latest Capital Ship/Battleship classes. But the Ambassador is 'only' ~2,800,000 m^3, and she set the new standard for starship size in her day (a greater leap in size for her day than even the Galaxy class was). Even in the mid-2340s, when the less-than-successful generational replacement for the Ambassador, the Niagara class (which comes in at ~3,200,000 m^3) launched, the Sovereign might have just barely made the BC classification, though by the time she launched in the 2370s, ship sizes had increased so much that 2,000,000 m^3 isn't large enough to be considered a Capital Ship (for the Federation in the 2370s, I'd say ~3,000,000 m^3 would be a lower limit for a capital ship).

The Sovereign doesn't quite fit the Heavy Cruiser definition, either, though. Starfleet probably classifies her as such, but the Sovereign is really just too big to be properly classed as a Heavy Cruiser. The closest historical rating that best compares to the Sovereign would be that given to the the Alaska class, launched at the end of WWII: Large Cruiser. Like the Sovereign and Alaska was a very large cruiser, considerably larger than even the biggest Heavy Cruisers/Armored Cruisers then in service, but she wasn't quite big enough and heavily armed enough to be a Capital Ship and to be classed as a Battlecruiser. So the US Navy gave her a special rating to differentiate her from conventional "Heavy"/Armored Cruisers: Large Cruiser. Large Cruisers are rare ships that are considerably larger, more powerful and more capable than conventional Heavy Cruisers, but not quite large and powerful enough to be a capital ship and classed as a Battlecruiser. They are kind of a step-between, falling roughly between a Heavy Cruiser and a Battlecruiser. I doubt that Starfleet's own rating system denotes this, however, and they probably just rate the Sovereign as a Heavy Cruiser, even though that rating doesn't quite properly apply.
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Offline MajorD

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Re: sovereign role
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2011, 09:13:47 AM »
I don't like how you say "by modern standards". It's pedantic for me to point this out, but a million ton ship would weigh as much as 200 Iowa class battleships.
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Offline Ilithi_Dragon

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Re: sovereign role
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2011, 09:27:30 AM »
I know what you mean. It's a rather anachronistic use of the word. Perhaps "By present standards" would be a better fit.
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Offline Atlantisbase

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Re: sovereign role
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2011, 12:13:48 PM »
I disagree about the Sovereign not being classed as a battleship/battlecruiser. I don't think volume is necessarily the defining qualification since the power of a component is not necessarily related to its size. The Sovereign, if I had to guess, I'd say it easily has the power output of a battleship/battlecruiser. The Sovereign was designed in the new design paradigm of the latter half of the 24th century which entails ships which are smaller, carry smaller crews, have lower profiles, but have higher power outputs in terms of weapons and shields. This paradigm was indented to deal with increased conflict with the Borg and Dominion. By making ships smaller they take slightly less time to build and require fewer personal to operate allowing more ships to be deployed in the long run, but at the same time the increased power in any one ship allows them to provide the same offense and defense with fewer ships. The Sovereign to me fits into this paradigm quite well. So by the older standards of the 23rd and early 24th centuries the Sovereign may not seem like a battleship, but I believe that it easily qualifies.

Offline Ilithi_Dragon

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Re: sovereign role
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2011, 12:41:44 PM »
Except that this fan-popular design paradigm shift does not exist. There is no indication that Starfleet is building smaller ships - all ships have been trending upwards in size for their given role, since the latter half of the 23rd Century. That trend continues into the 2370s. Yes, we see several new designs being launched in the '50s-'70s, but that does not mean that Starfleet is shifting to a smaller ship paradigm, especially when those ships are consistently larger for their designed roles than ships have been in the past.

The paradigm shift makes no sense in light of the Galaxy and Nebula class being launched in the early 2360s, after new, large Light and Heavy Cruisers launched in the 2350s, all being considerably larger for their designed roles than their predecessors. Then the 2360s and 70s roll around and we see even bigger cruisers and destroyers. And then the Sovereign comes out, far too small to be a Battleship by modern standards, and a perfect fit with the continuing trend of increasing ship size.

Furthermore, size IS a huge determining factor when dealing with contemporary technologies and designs. The size difference between the Sovereign and the Galaxy is ENORMOUS. The Galaxy is 5,200,000 cubic meters in volume, the Sovereign is only 2,000,000 cubic meters in volume. The Galaxy is roughly two and a half times the size of the Sovereign. You could literally fit TWO AND A HALF Sovereigns INSIDE a Galaxy class. That is an ENORMOUS difference and a HUGE factor in their total combat performance values, because the Galaxy can fit that much more stuff than the Sovereign can.

This size difference is even more critical when you consider the following two facts: 1. The Galaxy was Starfleet's premier Capital Ship and brand-spanking-new with bleeding-edge technology in 2363. She was Starfleet's latest and greatest Battleship, and it was made clear throughout TNG that she was the most powerful starship in the fleet, and DS9 showed us that she was a very capable and very impressive Battleship. 2. The Sovereign has in no way demonstrated a significantly greater level of combat focus or orientation than the Sovereign, and in fact could well have less so because her crew spaces and accommodations are equal to the Galaxy's, possibly even superior in some respects, DESPITE the fact that the Sovereign is less than half the size of the Galaxy.

On top of all of this, Rick Sternbach himself has said on the TrekBBS forums that the Sovereign was designed to replace the Excelsior, not the Galaxy, and that she was designed to be a workhorse Heavy Cruiser. This makes sense, given the history and age of the Excelsior, and the size and design of the Sovereign. She is the right size to be a modern Heavy Cruiser. An over-sized Heavy Cruiser, but a Heavy Cruiser none the less. And there is no way that the Sovereign could even match the Galaxy's total firepower and endurance, being only 8 or 9 years newer, without having most of the ship's total space dedicated to combat systems, which we quite clearly see is not the case (there is no indication that the Sovereign is any more combat-oriented than any other Federation starship, and plenty of indication that she is as much a multi-role vessel as any other starship), because the Galaxy is so much bigger than the Sovereign. If only 20% of the Galaxy's total volume were taken up by weapons systems, the Sovereign would have to dedicate a full 50% of its total volume just to weapons systems to be able to match it (weapons tech doesn't advance that much in 8 or 9 years, especially with technologies as mature as Federation weapons).
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Offline Atlantisbase

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Re: sovereign role
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2011, 01:45:03 PM »
I believe there is a paradigm shift. Right through the Galaxy and Nebula the size of shps had been growing, but after that ships start to shrink compared to the vessels they replace. The Intrepid which easily replaces an Excelsior is quite a bit smaller. The Akria, which easily replaces the Ambassador or Nebula down the road is significantly smaller. The Nova or Saber which easily replace the Miranda are quite a bit smaller. The Defiant is the epitome of this paradigm, being tiny in comparison yet having the power output of a ship several times its size. Starfleet never intended to build more than a few Galaxy class ships; only six space frames were built initially and only three were initially finished. It's only after the outbreak of the Dominion War that Starfleet began building Galaxys again, and even then it's likely that they were built knowing full well that they might not make it and were probably rolled off the line with the bare minimum. The Sovereign would have initially been convieved as a vessel that could take over as both a front line battleship and deep space explorer. I bet that the power output of a Sovereign is easily 1.5 times, if not 2 times, that of a Galaxy.

If only 20% of the Galaxy's total volume were taken up by weapons systems, the Sovereign would have to dedicate a full 50% of its total volume just to weapons systems to be able to match it (weapons tech doesn't advance that much in 8 or 9 years, especially with technologies as mature as Federation weapons).
That assumes that the weapon systems are the same size with the same power output, which is probably not the case. It also assumes that the warp core of a Sovereign has the same power output as that of a Galaxy, which is also unlikely. I believe you place more stock in size than it warrants. The Defiant clearly shows that size is not everything.

The removal of family accomidations also points towards making vessels more combat ready. Contact with the Borg probably only validated that.

Offline Ilithi_Dragon

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Re: sovereign role
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2011, 07:42:24 PM »
I believe there is a paradigm shift. Right through the Galaxy and Nebula the size of shps had been growing, but after that ships start to shrink compared to the vessels they replace. The Intrepid which easily replaces an Excelsior is quite a bit smaller. The Akria, which easily replaces the Ambassador or Nebula down the road is significantly smaller. The Nova or Saber which easily replace the Miranda are quite a bit smaller. The Defiant is the epitome of this paradigm, being tiny in comparison yet having the power output of a ship several times its size. Starfleet never intended to build more than a few Galaxy class ships; only six space frames were built initially and only three were initially finished. It's only after the outbreak of the Dominion War that Starfleet began building Galaxys again, and even then it's likely that they were built knowing full well that they might not make it and were probably rolled off the line with the bare minimum. The Sovereign would have initially been convieved as a vessel that could take over as both a front line battleship and deep space explorer. I bet that the power output of a Sovereign is easily 1.5 times, if not 2 times, that of a Galaxy.

We do know that the Sovereign's core is twice the size of the Galaxy's in total volume, though the structure is different. Whether or not this translates to a direct correlation in output increase per size is unknown. It's worth noting that if power could be so easily increased by increasing the size of the core beyond the size of the Galaxy's core, it's very like that the Galaxy would have a much larger core because she has so much more room in the ship (all ships have so much more room in the ship for the size of their engines, and could easily fit much larger cores without sacrificing a significant portion of the ship's volume), so there must be some reason why Starfleet doesn't just build monster cores.

But there is no design paradigm shift. The Intrepid did replace the Excelsior, true, but the Intrepid was one of MANY ships that replaced the Excelsior, and fills only one role among the many the Excelsior filled. The Excelsior is also a vastly older ship. The Intrepid is a Light Cruiser, measuring in at about 625,000 cubic meters in volume. The Excelsior, when she launched in 2285, was a Capital Ship, a Battleship, and she measured in at about 873,000 cubic meters. After the launch of the Ambassador, the Excelsior dropped down to fill the role of a big, powerful Heavy Cruiser, and was mass-produced. The Excelsior became THE Starfleet cruiser - there are barely any cruiser designs launched between 2300 and 2350, when the Excelsior would have been in the prime of its cruiser phase, and a crap-ton of Excelsiors were built. But the Excelsior got old, and starting in the 2350s, Starfleet began launching several new cruiser designs, all to replace the Excelsior. The new Light Cruisers would have been Battlecruisers by the standards of the Excelsior's day, and the new Heavy Cruisers, the Springfield and New Orleans, are comparable to or superior in size to the Excelsior.

The Akira did not replace the Ambassador - the Niagara class replaced the Ambassador as Starfleet's premier Capital Ship, and she was bigger than the Ambassador (~3,200,000 m^3), and the Niagara was replaced by the far larger Nebula and Galaxy classes (both coming in around 5,200,000 m^3). The Akira is another ship designed to fill the Heavy Cruiser role left vacant by the increased age of the Excelsior. She's 1.6 million m^3, the New Orleans, Starfleet's largest Heavy Cruiser prior to the Akira, is just shy of 1.1 million m^3, and the Springfield is in some 800,000-900,000 m^3, about the same size as the Excelsior. The Akira probably does match or even surpass the Ambassador with it's torpedo pod, but that's because it's 45 years newer, and several advancements in tech occurred in the mid-24th Century.

Just because we see a bunch of new smaller ship classes being launched does not mean that Starfleet is shifting paradigms to smaller ship sizes - it just means that Starfleet happens to be launching a series of new frigates, destroyers and cruisers, to replace the aging Excelsiors and Mirandas which had filled those roles as the mass-produced mainstays of the fleet for the first half of the 24th Century.


That assumes that the weapon systems are the same size with the same power output, which is probably not the case. It also assumes that the warp core of a Sovereign has the same power output as that of a Galaxy, which is also unlikely. I believe you place more stock in size than it warrants. The Defiant clearly shows that size is not everything.

The removal of family accomidations also points towards making vessels more combat ready. Contact with the Borg probably only validated that.

The core of the Sovereign is twice as large, yes, but not any more advanced than the Galaxy's core at the time of the Sovereign's launch. The Galaxy launched in 2363 with bleeding-edge technology, so new she was still being designed in some spots at the beginning of the year. The Sovereign launched in late 2371 or early 2372, only 8 or 9 years after the Galaxy. Mature tech like that used by the Federation does not advance that quickly (and Moore's Law does not apply - that only works for circuit computers, and only because we've had a bunch of 'low-hanging fruit' to pick in tech advancement, most of which is being used up because we're running into the brick wall of the physical constraints of miniaturization limits now). Most of the tech on the Sovereign and Galaxy has existed for 200+ years, and most of it has already been advanced to the maximum, with only marginal increases and refinements available. So most of the tech is going to have the same "performance density" - you're not going to be able to leap forward and cram more performance into a much smaller package in 8 or 9 years because the tech is already operating at the physical limits of the science behind it.

The Galaxy also got a new core in 2370 (TNG "Phantasms"), and numerous upgrades across its service life. The Sovereign might have a handful of new tech toys and marginally refined systems tech, but most of that would have already been applied to or been in the pipeline to be applied to the Galaxy class. The only thing that really leaped forward are quantum torpedoes (which is just a warhead and can be loaded onto any ship, requiring only a minor modification to be used in standard torpedo launchers per VOY "Dreadnought") and the tech behind the phaser components beneath the emitter crystal, the stuff that actually converts the EPS plasma into phaser energy, which was apparently miniaturized to fit under a much smaller emitter assembly (Sov has Type-XII emitters but they're considerably smaller than the Galaxy's Type-X emitters). This is supported by Rick Sternbach in posts on the TrekBBS thread, but Sternbach goes on to note that the Galaxy probably also received these miniaturization upgrades as well, since all that would be required would be to pack the miniaturized segments into an even larger package to fit into the slots on the Galaxy's array, giving her even more powerful emitters with the upgrade.

And even with more powerful emitters, the Galaxy has still demonstrated far more powerful energy blasts, using far more of her array, than the Sovereign. Hundreds of Type-X emitters discharging together yield far higher energies than a few dozen Type-XII emitters discharging together over the same amount of time, or even a longer period of time.


Oh, and the family thing is meaningless. The facilities to support 200 people would not even put a dent in a ship with 5.2 million m^3 of volume to use, ESPECIALLY when most of those facilities would have already been in place for the crew - the civilian capacity basically amounts to a few more quarters spaces, or expanded quarters spaces, and a few more compartments for civilian-specific activities. The impact would be negligible at most.


And the absence of crew on the Sovereign doesn't point to her being more militarized. Ron Moore said that the producers on the show generally agreed that the 'bring the family along' program ended up being much harder to justify than expected, and the producers generally viewed it as a failed program in Starfleet that was largely abandoned by the Dominion War anyway.


The Defiant shows how much firepower the Federation could cram into a space if they focused entirely on firepower and put aside all other concerns, including endurance. The Defiant is a short-ranged corvette with the power core of a destroyer, the firepower of a Light Cruiser, and the raw endurance of a destroyer, magnified to that of a Light Cruiser by her maneuverability. She's a potent little ship, but she has very limited range and endurance, even in combat - her pulse phaser cannon reserve banks wear out very quickly and have to be replaced, and the entire ship is very maintenance-heavy. She's a bunch of guns strapped to a set of engines, held together by a bunch of armor, intended to be mass-produced to counter the Borg. She's not a paradigm shift to small, tiny, short-ranged, mass-produced warships, she's just a specific ship designed to fill a specific role that the Federation had not previously covered.
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