Warp Turning

[newhalo123]

I was wondering, will the game feature a "galaxy" where a certain system has "exact" coordinates? And if so, will the ship turn to the Direction the system is in, if not facing that direction? Like in TNG, the Enterprise would turn around before going to warp. I think it would add a Very much better sense of "realisticness" that you are hoping to accomplish.

Or is it too soon to ask? 

[Michael]

No not too soon.  The game will have a spacial coordinate system and since we are aiming for a very expansive universe the ship will have to actually head in the correct direction before warping out.  This could create some interesting gameplay scenarios where if you are trying to get away from the enemy... you may not make it out of the system in time if you can't turn to head in the right direction in time. 

Sure you could just go into warp immediately, but then you may warp right into a planet, sun or asteroid.... hmmm space is very dangerous indeed!

Hope that answers your question!

[Jon Deane]

Can't you go to warp and then turn as well?  That happened in the show a lot too.

[zzz]

Can't you go to warp and then turn as well?  That happened in the show a lot too.

depends. if it was a small deviation they'd stay in warp and you'd see the ship bank. bigger ones, they dropped out, spun round and warped off again.

[AricwithanA]

Can't you go to warp and then turn as well?  That happened in the show a lot too.

To quote Paris...

"Faster than Light, No Left or Right."

No not too soon.  The game will have a spacial coordinate system and since we are aiming for a very expansive universe the ship will have to actually head in the correct direction before warping out.  This could create some interesting gameplay scenarios where if you are trying to get away from the enemy... you may not make it out of the system in time if you can't turn to head in the right direction in time. 

Sure you could just go into warp immediately, but then you may warp right into a planet, sun or asteroid.... hmmm space is very dangerous indeed!

Hope that answers your question!

That is something I am very happy to hear about!  Now the question that should be asked is will large bodies with large forces of graviational pull, reduce or nullify the ability to go to warp?  Generally, don't most ships not actually warp straight to the planet but outside the range and impulse your way in?

Also, will there be ways to STOP the misuse of warp?  I'm thinking like a remote shuttle slamming into a large enemy ship at warp speed.  We will get some type of explosion of sorts (since they use antimatter)  lol.  Then if we add the fact that the shuttle wouldn't actually be moving at the speed that is greater than light we won't be able to gauge damage by relativistic speeds.  Like if you shot a cannonball at a slight fraction of the speed of light onto a ship, but if the ball was within a warp field and hit the ship, what type of energy would be released then?

[MajorD]

To quote Paris...

"Faster than Light, No Left or Right."

That's an exaggeration for newbies. The ships can turn slowly at warp. I think there may have been warp turning in the same episode. The only reason they didn't turn at warp was because they were moving through tight corridors of safe space.

That is something I am very happy to hear about!  Now the question that should be asked is will large bodies with large forces of graviational pull, reduce or nullify the ability to go to warp?  Generally, don't most ships not actually warp straight to the planet but outside the range and impulse your way in?

Also, will there be ways to STOP the misuse of warp?  I'm thinking like a remote shuttle slamming into a large enemy ship at warp speed.  We will get some type of explosion of sorts (since they use antimatter)  lol.  Then if we add the fact that the shuttle wouldn't actually be moving at the speed that is greater than light we won't be able to gauge damage by relativistic speeds.  Like if you shot a cannonball at a slight fraction of the speed of light onto a ship, but if the ball was within a warp field and hit the ship, what type of energy would be released then?

Only the sudden presence of unexpected gravitational phenomena have ever halted warp drives, and only for a second. Remember, the Pheonix went to warp from what would have been low Earth orbit, and warp slingshot time travel is dependent upon high warp velocity close to a powerful gravity well.

We discussed warp ramming in another thread, my conclusion is it can't be done because it is never mentioned, never exploited, and never accidentally happens. Otherwise, we would see planet killer missiles that are nothing more than unmanned warp drives, instead we saw the Dreadnuat by the Cardassians which had a several ton matter/anti-matter quantum warhead. The results of a warp ramming should be the warp field failing on contact with the new mass and the generating ship dropping to high but conventional velocity of perhaps a few hundred km/s. More interesting would be for the warp field failure to result in nothing happening, with the warp ship seeming to appear out of now where touching the other ship with no damage, but that may not fit as well as having some residual velocity.

[AricwithanA]

That's an exaggeration for newbies. The ships can turn slowly at warp. I think there may have been warp turning in the same episode. The only reason they didn't turn at warp was because they were moving through tight corridors of safe space.
Only the sudden presence of unexpected gravitational phenomena have ever halted warp drives, and only for a second. Remember, the Pheonix went to warp from what would have been low Earth orbit, and warp slingshot time travel is dependent upon high warp velocity close to a powerful gravity well.

We discussed warp ramming in another thread, my conclusion is it can't be done because it is never mentioned, never exploited, and never accidentally happens. Otherwise, we would see planet killer missiles that are nothing more than unmanned warp drives, instead we saw the Dreadnuat by the Cardassians which had a several ton matter/anti-matter quantum warhead. The results of a warp ramming should be the warp field failing on contact with the new mass and the generating ship dropping to high but conventional velocity of perhaps a few hundred km/s. More interesting would be for the warp field failure to result in nothing happening, with the warp ship seeming to appear out of now where touching the other ship with no damage, but that may not fit as well as having some residual velocity.

Of course it is an over simplification, but one isn't going to be making any 180 degree turns at high warp either.  Turning would take some time to do in a large arc and such.  Thus, it would just be easier to drop out of warp and then rewarp, like they did in that one episode where I quote Paris in.

Yes we can turn, but it won't be an instant or close to instant thing. 

Since we can't even begin to test the warp ramming theory, I would agree.  It wasn't show in any of the shows/movies so we probably don't need it here as part of the main game.  That being said, I'm sure we will see a mod for it at some point in time since it is just game code and not actual laws of physics. 

[11001001]

The Phoenix didnt turn very slowly in "The Wounded". I hope we do get that action at the beginningof warp, when you plot the co-ordinates and the ship spins in action.

[zzz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZG09-M1Hc0&#t=1m22s

pretty sure the Scimitar must have gone back into warp after it overshot the Ent even if they don't show it.

[MajorD]

The few times the Enterprise-D encounters the Q barrier it turns away very quickly. I think it's a 180 degree turn in about five seconds, or 36 degrees/s. At warp, I think the turn rate is maybe a degree per second or more, although, there may be at-warp sidestepping which can be faster.

[Atlantisbase]

Since all "turning" at warp requires is a reshaping of the warp field, I would guess that the rate of turning is determined by how much one side of the field is reshaped. Thus, to do a 180 very quickly would require that one side of the field is distorted quite a bit. Perhaps there are recommended limits as to how much the field can be reshaped or how fast to turn, but if the situation requires it, these limits can be exceeded.

[Hiramas]

In theory I think the simple turning of the ship should be enough, without reconfiguring the warp field.
Inside the Warp Bubble is "normal" space, so newtonian physics should apply and the warp field would simply turn together with the ship, because it's configuration relies on the ship. (e.g. if you would turn the nacelles on a ship 90 degrees, it would probably move sideways...  )
What you have to take into account is the way the ship travels during the turn.
So even if the ship turns as fast as on Impulse speed, it travels a much longer Distance during that time.
I'm sure the warp field has to be adjusted in some way to a turn to compensate at least it's own effects on the surrounding space.
In fact that is the only real reason I can imagine to make instant 360-turns very difficult. I don't know what would happen if the two opposite effects of a warp field would cross. It would probably collapse or  rip the universe apart. Choose your favorite.
But small course adjustments or a very slow turn with a very large turning circle should be possible.#

edit: There is a nice scene in the Voyager Dauntless-Slipstream episode where the ship turns at ftl speeds. A warp turn should looks similar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Shb1IsoUMzs at 1:00

[MajorD]

That's an excellent find.

Slipstream and warp aren't the same thing, but it makes me think the warp field probably does need to be shaped to make a turn, and that using thrusters alone won't do anything to change direction, or could make things go wrong.

[Black Patriot]

That's good evidence, but it actually does show the slipspace tunnel curving before Voyager gets to it, which implies that the geometry of the field was being altered so that the turn could be made, not the other way around. And that clip also showed the Dauntless firing it's thrusters, though there wasn't enough of the slipspace tunnel in shot to see if that altered it's trajectory.

[MajorD]

It looks to me like nothing happened to the tunnel at all when the Daedalus turned, more than 45 degrees, with thrusters.  Voyager veered only slightly before bending its a new tunnel. I think we should have seen a bend in the tunnel or the tunnel staying parallel to the Daedalus if thruster turning were working on the tunnel.


Of course, slipstream and warp are probably apples and oranges, but the neat thing is it allows for the TOS reverse warp maneuver Kirk orders to escape the plasma torpedo, since maintaining the field works regardless of direction. Although, I think it would be appropriate that it would change the ship's performance depending on the ship's facing, but not in an arbitrary lower performance penalty. Don't get me wrong, going sideways should result in a huge strain and penalty, but going backwards might be no worse than reversing hull configuration for a narrow front and wide rear, then again the engines aren't made for running that direction so it may be strain too.

[Aresius]

I have to agree with Atlantisbase. Reshaping a warpfield can indeed turn a ship, just like when ships have one turbine spin forward and one backward to turn the ship stronger. Peroblem is, that to turn 180°, and turn fast, you would basically have to distort a field beyond work. And that in turn could tear the ship apart. Therefore, a certain limit is crutial.

[MajorD]

Or you might only be forced to stop to gain the most turn speed. Drifting at warp only works with powered nacelles, so turning with active nacelles would counter any drift effect. What if every degree per second of at-warp turning equals the loss of X amount of warp velocity? That would mean slow warp turning is not only for hull safety but speed management.

Although, the simplest way to pull off a rapid 180 is probably to drop from warp, spin, and go back to warp. Voyager actually used this tactic repeatedly in order to perform a series of extremely rapid turns and bursts of warp.

[Aresius]

Indeed.
That would minimise the tension of the hull.

[USS_Excalibur]

My personal Opinion is that if you are at low warp (Warp 3 or lower), you can make mild corrections since it wouldn't stress too much on the ship. However, if you were to be at High Warp (Warp 7 or higher) then you'd have to decelerate first. Because you of course then have slip stream factor. With low warp the ship still has sufficient engine strength to make minor corrections. If you were to turn at high warp, the slipstream factor could tear your ship apart.

The reason Borg do not have this problem is because they have Warp Engines on all sides. And their superior deflector systems can deflect a whole lot more stress when turning than a Feddie's ship.

[webxro]

well i still thing that turning at high warp would rip the ship apart