Author Topic: Realistic Warp Effects  (Read 839 times)

Offline icEPiraka

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Realistic Warp Effects
« on: June 18, 2010, 10:07:31 AM »
I have been giving much thought on how warp drive would look in real life, according to general relativity and Alcubierre warp drive. If realism is the name of the game with STE, and assuming the warp drive principles in Star Trek are analogous to the Alcubierre metric theory, the I shall try to give a few tips on how warp should look.

When observing inside the ship or warp bubble in general, things should look normal. But when engaging the warp engines up to the light barrier, light coming in from the ship's front should become compressed and shifted blue (something like the Doppler effect), and light coming behind should be stretched and shifted to red. Once the light barrier is broken, a region of black should form when looking back, since light cannot reach the ship from behind, now that we are moving faster than light. If the field of vision is a sphere, it should be divided into two hemispherical regions: one facing forward, where light is coming in, and one facing behind, where no light is seen. It would almost appear like the ship is hovering over the event horizon of a black hole. The boundary between these areas may change with changes in warp speed, with the black region expanding and visible region contracting with faster warp speed, and vice versa, almost like the iris of an eye. This is because faster warp speeds will cause light moving in from stars to the left or right might "miss" the higher-velocity warp bubble, like a bullet trying to hit a faster target. In the visible zones, light should be highly blue shifted in the center of the region, and red shifted near the boundary (again for Doppler effect reasons). The visible region should also give an effect of gravitational lensing, since that if light rays coming in at right angles to the ship hit the front of the warp bubble, the contraction of space at front should bend the light toward the ship. The "warp stars" effect can still be valid, as particles may seem to move at high velocities past the ship, but the stars themselves should be a bit more static, with perhaps a tad of motion blur.

From observers outside the warp bubble, things may look like they do in the TMP era warp effects. Since the ship is moving faster than light, light emanating from the ship should make a "sonic boom" effect, except with light, appearing in a sudden streak and shifting from blue to red before then disappearing (once again I am saying this from a Doppler effect perspective). If course, this makes true sight-viewing of ships practically impossible, due to the delay caused by the speed of light, which may make a ship appear in one place where it actually far ahead. This can be compensated by moving the observer closer to the ship at warp, but then the ship won't be seen until it is directly upon the observer. If the observer is moving alongside the warp bubble but outside it, the observer must stay in the light "shockwave," or else the ship is effectively invisible, with perhaps the exception of gravitational lensing due to contraction of space before the ship.

Entering and exiting warp should be a cross between the TMP and TNG era effects. Entering warp should cause the ship to appear to stretch until it creates the TMP type warp streak, with light shifting from normal to red. Exiting from warp should cause a reversal in stretching back to normal, with light shifting from blue back to normal.

Most of this is just off the top of my head, trying to mentally simulate real warp drive according to Alcubierre theory, but I hope it is an accurate representation. Naturally, this could interfere with things like actually being able to detect ships and making combat at warp, but if a ship's subspace effects can be detected with sensors this problem might be circumvented. In any case, I think that the Alcubierre idea could be a good mathematical basis for actual warp in Star Trek.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2010, 10:15:19 AM by icEPiraka »

Offline MajorD

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Re: Realistic Warp Effects
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2010, 11:18:27 AM »
I think this worth considering as a basis for a new set of effects for the warp drive. From a canon perspective, considering the differences between effects in the original series, the movies, and TNG changes in those effects for the game make perfect sense and basing it on physics is not a bad way to go. For instance, the doppler effect should be applied to impulse drive use when at sufficient velocity.
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Offline Black Patriot

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Re: Realistic Warp Effects
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2010, 01:33:49 PM »
I'd rather have the effects from ST XI for going to warp and back to impulse, but keep the at warp effect from TNG, with the particles rushing past the ship. The ST XI effect has the ship accelerating so quickly that you can't really see the stars blue shift, so that's not really violating physical laws, it still happens, just so quickly that we can't see it. The at warp effects I'm not so sure on, but I think the effect from ST XI is a bit much, not to mention it would make combat at warp pretty confusing.
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Offline icEPiraka

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Re: Realistic Warp Effects
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2010, 03:32:37 AM »
I'd rather have the effects from ST XI for going to warp and back to impulse, but keep the at warp effect from TNG, with the particles rushing past the ship. The ST XI effect has the ship accelerating so quickly that you can't really see the stars blue shift, so that's not really violating physical laws, it still happens, just so quickly that we can't see it. The at warp effects I'm not so sure on, but I think the effect from ST XI is a bit much, not to mention it would make combat at warp pretty confusing.

I believe I was referring to the light emanating from the ship as blue/red shifting, not the stars themselves. I have to disagree with you when you say a ship entering warp cannot be seen. If an airplane makes sound continuously, it does not become inaudible once the sound barrier is broken (if anything, the sonic wave that follows is quite loud and attention-getting). In a similar effect, a perfect, stationary observer should be able to see the photons of an object, no matter how fast it moves (unless you're talking about the expansion of the universe, which is another story. Warp drive is not like quite like that, so light should be able to escape a warp bubble). In fact, entering warp should cause a ship to appear in multiple (if not infinite) places at once (this is the founding principle on which the Picard maneuver is based), hence the big warp streak/blur. On top of that, the light should be shifted blue or red depending upon whether the ship moves toward or away, just like in moving galaxies.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2010, 03:49:49 AM by icEPiraka »

Offline Mark

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Re: Realistic Warp Effects
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2010, 04:42:23 AM »
I'd rather have the effects from ST XI for going to warp and back to impulse

 :shock:, you should really watch the original star wars  :lol:

Offline 11001001

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Re: Realistic Warp Effects
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2010, 05:42:39 AM »
It's like rain hitting the window of a moving car, the wind pushes it back. With the outside shots of the ships, the stars that are infront of the ship should seem to move towards it, the if your looking towards the back, they should to to be expanding away from it.

Offline Black Patriot

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Re: Realistic Warp Effects
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2010, 06:49:45 PM »
:shock:, you should really watch the original star wars  :lol:
The effects are very similar, but there are some differences, in Star Wars there isn't any visible warping of the ship when it engages hyperdrive, in ST XI there is. Not to mention the differences in the internal view of the ship accelerating, which we see in the film. In Star Wars we get all the stars streaking towards the ship, in Star Trek we get the front of the ship distorting away from the rest of the ship for a fraction of a second.

I believe I was referring to the light emanating from the ship as blue/red shifting, not the stars themselves. I have to disagree with you when you say a ship entering warp cannot be seen. If an airplane makes sound continuously, it does not become inaudible once the sound barrier is broken (if anything, the sonic wave that follows is quite loud and attention-getting). In a similar effect, a perfect, stationary observer should be able to see the photons of an object, no matter how fast it moves (unless you're talking about the expansion of the universe, which is another story. Warp drive is not like quite like that, so light should be able to escape a warp bubble). In fact, entering warp should cause a ship to appear in multiple (if not infinite) places at once (this is the founding principle on which the Picard maneuver is based), hence the big warp streak/blur. On top of that, the light should be shifted blue or red depending upon whether the ship moves toward or away, just like in moving galaxies.
I didn't mean that the ship wouldn't be visible, what I meant was that during the acceleration to warp the blue shift of all external light sources would happen so quickly that it wouldn't really be visible to the people on the ship. If you had a forward view then you might see some blue shift for a fraction of a second but after that the ship would be at warp. As for internal lights then I agree, that would shift to the outside observer.
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Offline Jon Deane

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Re: Realistic Warp Effects
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2010, 07:39:11 PM »
This is a Star Trek game, so it should use Star Trek effects.

Offline Michael

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Re: Realistic Warp Effects
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2010, 08:50:59 PM »
We've always said that this game will look like the show.  So the effects you see in the show are what you'll see in the game.

However we are hoping to have a flexible enough system for FX that you could make your own if you wanted.
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Offline Zachstar

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Re: Realistic Warp Effects
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2010, 09:19:31 AM »
Sorry to post in an older topic but Nano I do hope that will be on the priority list as a story mod I am thinking about would take place as an alternative version of the alternative timeline. Therefore the warp effect ought to be a boom to warp and the new warp effect from the movie. If that could be modded in that would be great.

As for normal timeline my vote is for the TNG Warp effect. The multicolor appearance seems much more realistic and more "Scifi" like than the other shows in my opinion.
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Offline Red Shirt

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Re: Realistic Warp Effects
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2010, 08:03:43 AM »
Didn't the TOS movies have the TNG effects. In The Wrath of Khan before the Enterprise encounters the Reliant. The Voyage Home when the Bounty is heading to earth.

PS> Just wondering but is there anything canon that explains why the warp effects changed dramatically from the films to TNG or what.

Offline MajorD

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Re: Realistic Warp Effects
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2010, 02:02:49 PM »
Differing camera lenses? :)
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Offline Atlantisbase

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Re: Realistic Warp Effects
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2010, 10:04:43 AM »
PS> Just wondering but is there anything canon that explains why the warp effects changed dramatically from the films to TNG or what.
Warp scale readjustment maybe. Different warp field shapes, more efficient drives. It's never really addressed. Of course the real reason is better screen magic, advent of computers and digital effects, etc.

Offline Jon Deane

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Re: Realistic Warp Effects
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2010, 10:29:02 PM »
Do we need a screen reason?  As long as the characters don't point anything out, appearance differences don't matter because we can simply say that one is wrong and move on.  This is how the Klingon forehead ridge problem was dealt with prior to "Trials and Tribble-ations" and works perfectly well.

Offline MajorD

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Re: Realistic Warp Effects
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2010, 04:19:37 PM »
I like the Enterprise episodes explaining that, and more so because it's based on Bashir and O'Brien's speculation in the DS9 episode where it was first brought up.

But, for a visual effect, I don't care so much, but the easiest explanation is the same as for transporters. Technological differences or settings differences, nothing more. Maybe they can even specifically control the aesthetics. That would give me a chuckle for a captain to say, "No, no that won't do. I want the warp effect more smokey than rainbowy."
      "Aye, sir. More smoke! Less rainbow!"
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