Adonis 10.11.2009 Miranda class

[Jules]

Now that I have the Miranda in a acceptable level of completion, I'll write a bit about her.

I based my model of the Saratoga studio model, not the Reliant one. There are two reasons to this: First is that there are a lot more reference pics of the rollbar Saratoga then the Reliant (and more crisper, and bigger rez too), and second is that the Saratoga one is more highly detailed.

I took the saucer and the nacelles off the Constitution and meshed the new sections out, fixed mappings and unwrapped the new stuff. I actually used a somewhat different technique in lighting this one up than the one used on the Connie (or previously on any of my models for that matter), it makes the renders of the lightmaps better and more precise, and the maps match up much better between them. I'll be redoing the Connies lightmaps this way too.

The Mirandas hull is full of greebles and parts where the surface rises or falls. Her hull reminds me of the face of the Moon TBH  . The "secondary hull" normal map is the most complex of the lot.

You may also notice that the teal plates have a different color than the Connies ones. This is also accurate believe it or not (it's like that on the Reliant studio model too). This model of mine is another of the lot that is modular, meaning that I have all the parts I need to make the alternates in the same scene, and just merge what I need of it into a new one  And ze pix:

[Magnum]

I like it.  You can definitely see the work and detail that went into this ship.  One of my favs! 

[MajorD]

Two details jump at me immediately, the nacelles shouldn't have the light holes of the Constitution class under the tips of the nacelles. That detail was not added to any of the models.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/d/d4/USS_Sitak_and_USS_Majestic_hit.jpg/450px-USS_Sitak_and_USS_Majestic_hit.jpg
http://www.startrek.com/imageuploads/200510/mov-002-miranda-class/320x240.jpg
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Uss_saratoga_2367_fore.jpg
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:USS_Majestic,_firing_phasers.jpg
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:USS_Reliant.jpg
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/7/78/USS_Majestic%2C_firing_phasers.jpg

Secondly the lower dome should glow. In DS9, we see the domes of both Miranda ships in this image glowing.

[Jules]

Secondly the lower dome should glow. In DS9, we see the domes of both Miranda ships in this image glowing.

Those are CGI, I won't play around with them, CGI always screwed up stuff bigtime in Trek compared to the studio models, DS9 the most.

And I know about the thrusters, they stay.

Most of what you showed me here are DS9 CGI shots, and the renders upstairs represent TMP era Mirandas, I haven't done the redress to DS9 yet.

[MajorD]

If the lights are thrusters, what are the yellow things?

[Jules]

If the lights are thrusters, what are the yellow things?

You mean in the light in the cut-in in the lower front of the nacelles? Yes, they are thrusters, and the yellow ones are thrusters too. TMP ships stuck to yellow with white (sometimes yellowish) lights as thrusters only on the Connie mostly (you have that same area I think you're referring to as the only difference to that), on the Mirandas and especially the Excelsior, it gets a whole lot different.

[MajorD]

You mean in the light in the cut-in in the lower front of the nacelles? Yes, they are thrusters, and the yellow ones are thrusters too. TMP ships stuck to yellow with white (sometimes yellowish) lights as thrusters only on the Connie mostly (you have that same area I think you're referring to as the only difference to that), on the Mirandas and especially the Excelsior, it gets a whole lot different.

How do you know the lights are thrusters?

[Magnum]

I looked over this ship again. Saw all the little details that were mentioned above. I still like it.

[Jules]

How do you know the lights are thrusters?

If you would have watched the "leaving spacedock" scene in ST1 you'd know too. All the thrusters light up there before they leave the dock. 

[Mark]

oh no no no, you cant compare crappy DS9 CGI models to the real thing straight out of the studio...

[zzz]

If you would have watched the "leaving spacedock" scene in ST1 you'd know too. All the thrusters light up there before they leave the dock. 

did they? @ 36 minutes in Sulu says "thrusters at station keeping", then it proceeds to the big impressive leaving spacedock scene. All the lights come on in succession (including those nacelle ones) and light up the stuff like the starfleet emblems and registry. They're very much like lights. they cast light beams and are aimed at the hull to illuminate it. otherwise you've got some strangely positioned thrusters around the nacelle struts and saucer neck. The deflector comes online at the same time and that definitely isn't a thruster. it's just a "power-up" montage.

some screencaps from WoK of the Reliant would probably settle the other debate.

[Jules]

did they? @ 36 minutes in Sulu says "thrusters at station keeping", then it proceeds to the big impressive leaving spacedock scene. All the lights come on in succession (including those nacelle ones) and light up the stuff like the starfleet emblems and registry. They're very much like lights. they cast light beams and are aimed at the hull to illuminate it. otherwise you've got some strangely positioned thrusters around the nacelle struts and saucer neck. The deflector comes online at the same time and that definitely isn't a thruster. it's just a "power-up" montage.

some screencaps from WoK of the Reliant would probably settle the other debate.

Look at the direction from which the outward nacelle registry light comes from. The source of that lightning is in fact the top thruster on the horizontal wing. The nacelle strut root has 2 lights (one for the inside lightning, one for outside per strut). The neck lightning comes from two lights side-by-side on the aft top of the torp deck, etc. I don't say they're all thrusters, but their position dictates if it's a thruster or a light.

I have been looking at scenes of the Connie, Miranda and Excelsiors for over two years, frame by frame of the movies, DVD and HD quality screenshots, extrapolating which lights do what, when they are on, which ones cast light, which ones don't and so on. So I know what I'm talking about.

[MajorD]

 I don't say they're all thrusters, but their position dictates if it's a thruster or a light.

What about the two lights on the front of the nacelles indicate they're thrusters? If anything, the illumination scene indicates the thrusters are lights and not thrusters, which fits the arrangement of navigation lights on sea ships, to some extent. The most certain indicator of light=thruster is in how Spock's rocket pack lights like a flood light, but has wisps of gas kind of like a frantic ion engine, so those wisps are the true indicator.

[Kaempfer]

Another beauty Adonis!

[MajorD]

There's something I can't determine based on these images, does the space between the hull and pylons have a plug? It's something I think I didn't see on the modified Miranda from the update. I have a picture of the Miranda model with plugs filling the gaps between hull and pylon. I think I see the difference, on yours the pylons are straight up and down, but the model has the pylons angled outward as they go down, then go straight down once they reach the bottom of the hull. In the right sub-image, we can see a vertical ray in the plug that helps us see the angle of pylon and hull. This explains why the gap at the top is too wide and too narrow at the bottom.

We can also there are details inside the upside down triangles on either side of the shuttle bays, they have lights in the center and base and three rays extending from the larger light.

The torpedo pod also seems different from yours. Your model has the two fins in the tail extension reach the entire length of the groove, but the physical model has the two fins extend about half the length of the groove. I think the physical model's tail extends back further and may be thicker in circumference, the fins may also be slightly thinner but that's hard to tell.

original

Below we can see how the pylon is angled from the side. The top and bottom do not penetrate through the same vertical line, the top is offset inward about 1 or 2 degrees, considering the edge of the hull also slopes outward as it rises. Without that angle of the hull, the angle of the pylon appears greater.

[Jules]

Now that I have the Miranda in a acceptable level of completion

You do realize what those words mean, do you?

Plus I don't need every single pic I saw hundreds of times in the last 2 years posted in this thread.

[MajorD]

Do you realize what a forum is for? Discussion, not -------. The question isn't whether you saw the pictures, but the details in the pictures.

**Swearing, Arguing and Whining are three things I wont stand for. The people you are talking to give hours of their own time to produce something you will eventually enjoy for free, the least you can do is show a little respect.**

[Magnum]

I think we sometimes forget that if we don't like what is put in the game or feel it could be better, it can always be modded after it is released. Granted, this is a discussion and we are to discuss what is in these threads. But I can't see how arguing about how a ship should look to the developer, will help get this game any more awesome.

Now that I have the Miranda in a acceptable level of completion, I'll write a bit about her.

Pretty much sums it up for me.  It's a moot point.

[zzz]

The people you are talking to give hours of their own time to produce something you will eventually enjoy for free, the least you can do is show a little respect

Oh no, please not these arguments already. 

I've seen them all, from both POVs, on many many mods. "We're doing this for free", "we have to contend with work/school", "you do better if you don't like it". None of them are ever the slightest bit convincing and they're never a good sign for a project when they start being used.

[Jon]

Guys, this is not open for debate. And to be frank, since this is our project we have the right to develop it as we see fit.

Go and read the FAQ where this is clearly stated.

Whether they are convincing to you or not doesn't make them any less true.

Back ontopic please.