First Person Shooter Mechanics

[MajorD]

What first person shooter mechanics do want? We've had some similar discussion, but it's been rather focused on specific things.  What about general mechanics?

Offense

Not much to say here that hasn't been said elsewhere.
http://www.stexcalibur.com/forum/index.php/topic,4615.0.html
http://www.stexcalibur.com/forum/index.php/topic,4613.0.html
The short version is, fewer weapons with more features, more alien weapons but with overlapping functions since they're meant for the same jobs.

One good hit, depending on the setting and where you hit the body should be able to kill most things. So, damage based on point of contact, or at least limb of contact. Arms and legs should count less than a torso hit, and the head should count for the most damage.

Defenses

I'm leaning to no shields, and maybe a light armor, but more a Call of Duty 4 like system. In it, if you're hit and rest a couple of seconds behind cover, you recover and can move again. It's like you only thought you were hit because someone else's blood got in your eyes. It keeps the pace faster and you can concentrate more on combat. The armor is to explain how you can take a bunch of phaser hits without dying from the first shot. Although, some sort of Trek twist where you take cover to use a hypospray pain killer might be good if you got hurt too many times for the armor to be realistic. So, you could die if you take too many hits in succession like CoD4, or if you take lots of hits over time. No life bar though, your general condition should get worse in order to indicate if you need pain killers, but needing them will be rare even with plenty of damage taken.

Ammo

I would like the weapons to have thousands of shots. We almost never see anyone reload and the closest indications to shot capacity we have is where eight phasers in TOS were used to lift a shuttle nearly to orbit.
http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3l.html#lasermagazine (scroll down a little)
The author of the page concludes that each phaser would have 9.3e10 joules. In TNG: "The Mind's Eye" Geordi and Data test a phaser Type III at 1.05 megawatts.
http://www.phasers.net/2360/type3.htm
9.3e10 joules/1.05 MW = slightly over 1 day of continuous fire. That's 88,571 seconds of fire. Better yet, that's a thousand times more powerful than a rifle round per second, you don't need that much energy to kill a person so normal kill shots mean the weapon can last even longer. So, unless the story has us fighting for days straight on the same weapon, or frequently using the higher settings, we shouldn't have to reload, recharge, nor switch weapons unless a different design is more ideal.

Recharging

We won't need it, except in extreme cases, and if our weapon is dead then we probably don't have time to figure out how to recharge it. Just go find an enemy weapon before that happens.

Obstructions

Certain objects should be completely resistant to certain phaser settings (but not all settings) and will make for cover. Other objects, like bushes should let phaser energy fly right through and be nothing more than concealment, obstructing enemy view only. Better phaser rifles should have optics that allow you to acquire targets behind concealment and cover, and just like with a gun, if your phaser is strong enough and the wall weak enough, you can fire through the wall. Enemy weapons might have scrambling devices or specially set tricorders to counter such weapon sensors, making it harder to hit targets behind concealment.

Our characters should be capable of pull ups, and thus capable of jumping up to a low ledge and pulling themselves up to the higher area. That should go for anything lower than the pull up height, too.

Jumping shouldn't be too high, but if we get a running start, it should be possible to leap decent distances in order to cross gaps.

Leveling

Even if it's minimal, I would like some sort of leveling ability. Something subtle such as tighter aim, faster draw, faster run, higher jump, faster repair, and longer endurance, and perhaps weapon qualification. We should be able to go to the shooting gallery or gym to train up the various skills. No mini-games please, except for the target practice. This is in addition to non-combat stats such as scientific, engineering, historical, and diplomatic knowledge and ability. Just because the personality of the character is fixed doesn't mean the skill sets have to be. Then again maybe it does, so those intellectual skills may be general knowledge rather than professional knowledge, but they would help open conversation options with people who are skilled in those areas. Okay, that last bit is off topic.

[sman789]

For the first point, there should be more features of weapons than weapons themselves, seeing as the community is more likely to fill in missing weapons than missing program code.

IF there is going to be a serious FPS element to the game (is it a priority, though,) then point-of-contact based damage would be essential to bring it to the standard of virtually all shooters nowadays, it's one of those things that (rightly or wrongly) you just expect from every game of the genre.

I agree, a COD4 system would be cool, it's almost as unrealistic as a health bar system but it's by far the least annoying of all possibilities, and that's what really matters to the player. All federation weapons should work like the phasers did in Elite force, where they recharge themselves, but slowly enough to stop you just phasering in front of yourself constantly. The phaser recharge should also go into negatives if you use something like a wide-beam blast, so you can't fire it again at all for a few seconds. Some walls should be destructable, but obviously not to the point that you can blast open all four corners of the map. Just small things like tables and chairs and maybe those half-walls like in Voyager's mess hall. Things that wouldn't ruin the rest of the game having a huge whole in them.

[MajorD]

If you think about CoD's system being more along the lines of getting freaked out and having to calm down, it makes more sense.

I think a phaser should should be able to blow up an average modern house with ease, and 1 MW would let you do that in just a few seconds since two seconds of that equals a stick of TNT. You wouldn't want to use those settings while in a building, cave, or ship since that would get you killed.

As for rate of fire, Fed phasers are 86.5% efficient, some alien weapons are more efficient, that's a lot of waste heat to dump. Anyway, that's a limit right there. At max energy a phaser Type II should allow a quarter second shot every second, I think that fits the shows pretty well and it makes lower setting really fast like they can be occasionally in the show. But, one thing I absolutely hate are forced or slowed cool down just for topping out the heatsink. It doesn't make sense, if the weapon cuts out automatically or weakens the last shot to prevent damage then it has stopped itself from exceeding its limit. Once it's partially cooled, you should be able to fire again without waiting for total cooldown. It also encourages players to use weaker shots in order to squeeze out a few more, or longer, shots before maxing out.

[zzz]

Keep it simple.

Each ship has a pistol and rifle variant for you to use. Some species have melee weapons to go with it. Recharging instead of ammo. No health bars or anything. Take 3 hits and the screen edges start turning red. Regenerative health.

[Black Patriot]

The COD system of health should work well, since it's been in quite a few games. As for the phasers I agree about the ammo, it was really annoying in elite force that the phaser rifle would only get like 20-30 shots from a full charge.

I'm not sure about having the phasers that destructive (even though that would be canon), it's probably going to be a hassle to add to the engine, at least on that sort of scale. Vaporizing a few props is pretty simple, but destroying anything larger is not easy.

[joe5]

Keep it simple.

Each ship has a pistol and rifle variant for you to use. Some species have melee weapons to go with it. Recharging instead of ammo. No health bars or anything. Take 3 hits and the screen edges start turning red. Regenerative health.

i think that a quick and durty interior combat sistum would be one of the most damiging things that could be added
it should be good or not there

[MajorD]

The COD system of health should work well, since it's been in quite a few games. As for the phasers I agree about the ammo, it was really annoying in elite force that the phaser rifle would only get like 20-30 shots from a full charge.

I'm not sure about having the phasers that destructive (even though that would be canon), it's probably going to be a hassle to add to the engine, at least on that sort of scale. Vaporizing a few props is pretty simple, but destroying anything larger is not easy.

In the second link, we discussed environment damage. There are three ways to handle, predetermined damage so stuff can be damaged one way or not at all, replacement damage where an invisible object can take a bite out of another object and which is pretty flexible, and procedural damage where damage is situational and changes models on the fly. A mix may be used.

[zzz]

i think that a quick and durty interior combat sistum would be one of the most damiging things that could be added
it should be good or not there

simple != "quick and durty"

[MajorD]

There is no simple damage system that isn't quick and dirty, other than using decals, which leaves out physical damage. Even using only the excluding sphere method has problems with upper limits. 

[Black Patriot]

In the second link, we discussed environment damage. There are three ways to handle, predetermined damage so stuff can be damaged one way or not at all, replacement damage where an invisible object can take a bite out of another object and which is pretty flexible, and procedural damage where damage is situational and changes models on the fly. A mix may be used.

Didn't read that before, seems like a pretty good solution to the problems.

There is no simple damage system that isn't quick and dirty, other than using decals, which leaves out physical damage. Even using only the excluding sphere method has problems with upper limits. 

Upper limits are getting quite large, the new i7 systems can support up to 16GB of RAM, with the average motherboard able to support 12GB. I have an older quad core, but I'm still running 8GB of ram, with 896MB of VRAM, and whilst this is probably pretty high end it still shows that developers can start to go nuts with memory. By the time this game is released I'm sure most people will be running at least 6GB of ram, probably more, and the new Core i9 processors will have 6 cores, so the calculations for terrain deformation become less of a problem.

[MajorD]

Most people have XP which can only handle about 3 GB. More people will go to Win7, but that's going to take a while not all of them are going to buy a super up to date graphics card just because they upgraded operating systems.

[sman789]

I think that by 2011 or whenever this is supposed to be released, most people who want to run games will have switched to Win7 because it is fastasticly fast (maybe not as much as XP, but not far off.) And in the end it's more the responsibility of the developers to make a great game than runs on most up-to-date systems than to make a worse one that can work on something released in 2001, in the end it's the user's responsibility to make sure that the have something decent, and it's not much to ask saying that XP's not a good idea.

@You don't need anything super up to date, my laptop has a 2Ghz Dual Core processor, 2GB RAM, and a nVidia 8400M GS with something like 256Mb dedicated memory, and it runs Windows 7 perfectly fine and plays most of the latest games on low-medium settings. The laptop was only £499 a year ago, so a comparable desktop nowadays would be about £300 if that! If we assume that something eaqually as good for 2011 (so runs most 2011 stuff fine on low-med settings) would cost the same price, then there is no reason to start supporting devices made (what will be) ten years ago!

[Black Patriot]

Most people have XP which can only handle about 3 GB. More people will go to Win7, but that's going to take a while not all of them are going to buy a super up to date graphics card just because they upgraded operating systems.

Actually its not Windows 7 that can handle more RAM, if you install Windows 7 32bit then you will have the same restrictions as Windows XP 32bit. If you install Windows XP 64bit then it'll be able to handle much more RAM than anyone is likely to have (somewhere in the region of 128+GB, and with proper implementation of 64bit it can go much higher, like a couple of TB).

It is true that I have a pretty up to date graphics card, but even the mainstream $100 ones are 512MB, and that's only going to get bigger, the next gen will have the minimum at around 1GB, and it just keeps going up from there.

[Cyllus]

I'm leaning to no shields, and maybe a light armor, but more a Call of Duty 4 like system. In it, if you're hit and rest a couple of seconds behind cover, you recover and can move again.

Bullet wounds don't go away just because you take 5. and neither to phasor burns.

[sman789]

Well would you rather that a phaser stun blanked your screen for five hours and a kill wiped all your saves? You have to put gameplay over realism on occasion to get a good game.

[MajorD]

Completely realism would be possible for FPS in Trek combat, but it would require being beamed out every time you're hit. That gets in the way of pacing to a horrible degree. Make one mistake and you'll miss a battle. But, there's a difference between in-game realism and absolute realism. I would never force someone to sit through five hours of a blank screen. Just do it like any normal game and have it so five hours passes in-game.

It's practical to work inaccuracy into the system, CoD4 has enemies miss as long as you are far enough away, keep moving, and switch cover and concealment frequently and that's mostly how it keeps it real, by simply avoiding damage. But, you can get hit, that's why I mentioned a light armoring and pain killer. That way resting is just getting over discomfort, like getting hit in a ceramic plate but otherwise remaining unperforated. But, eventually too many hits spaced too closely together in time create too much discomfort and if you keep messing up like that you'll die by the next shot. That's why I mention a pain killer, instead of only resting, you use a hypospray to remove really bad levels of damage, plain rest is for light damage.

I've always like the idea that the standard uniforms are lightly phaser resistant, and ever since DS9 and a particular heavy coat, I've though there might be a heavier infantry armor.

[Black Patriot]

It's practical to work inaccuracy into the system, CoD4 has enemies miss as long as you are far enough away, keep moving, and switch cover and concealment frequently and that's mostly how it keeps it real, by simply avoiding damage. But, you can get hit, that's why I mentioned a light armoring and pain killer. That way resting is just getting over discomfort, like getting hit in a ceramic plate but otherwise remaining unperforated. But, eventually too many hits spaced too closely together in time create too much discomfort and if you keep messing up like that you'll die by the next shot. That's why I mention a pain killer, instead of only resting, you use a hypospray to remove really bad levels of damage, plain rest is for light damage.

I agree, changing cover and random movements should be enough to cause the AI to miss most of the time (or at least only score grazing shots), and hopefully they'll use the same tactics against the player. Would the pain killer be automatic once in cover, or is it something the player has to notice, perhaps if the player's character is having trouble breathing or is jittery in holding his/her phaser/tricorder, that would be an indication that they're not in good shape and need a painkiller.

I think that an emergency beam out should be an option, such as if the AI are far too numerous, especially if an away team has been ambushed or something like that, the officer (more than likely the player) can order a beam out. If the player beams out when the situation doesn't necessarily call for it then there might be a warning against cowardice, like the other away team members could say something on the transporter pad after beaming back, and if the player keeps retreating unnecessarily then there can be a formal reprimand. Just a thought, something to make the decisions that the player makes matter in the long run, just like it would affect the career of a Starfleet officer. As a mirror of that, not retreating and losing team mates because the player thought the situation wasn't as bad as it really was could also have negative effects, if repeated enough.

I've always like the idea that the standard uniforms are lightly phaser resistant, and ever since DS9 and a particular heavy coat, I've though there might be a heavier infantry armor.

The early uniforms did seem to be made of very thin material, and with the Borg and the Dominion threats looming it makes sense that Starfleet might change the uniforms to include better protection to the elements as well as directed particle weapons, such as an energized layer that absorbs and distributes some of the energy from a phaser blast, to try and protect the wearer from the full brunt of the weapon.

[sman789]

It's quite surprising just how bad federation uniforms are...I mean it's fine for walking around a space station and all that but when you're on a planet shooting Jem'Hadar you'd think the federation would be able to do a little better

Perhaps different clothes could be introduced, like you can change to wear klingon armour or some stuff that you guys have made up, like a prototype Starfleet armour or something. Oh, and Hazerd suits could be used, I mean they are cannon...sort of...

[zzz]

Bullet wounds don't go away just because you take 5. and neither to phasor burns.

it's a video game. Even tactical shooters like Arma have healing options.

There's a reason why the Halo/CoD regenerative health option is so prevalent in today's games.

[furswift]

It's quite surprising just how bad federation uniforms are...I mean it's fine for walking around a space station and all that but when you're on a planet shooting Jem'Hadar you'd think the federation would be able to do a little better

Perhaps different clothes could be introduced, like you can change to wear klingon armour or some stuff that you guys have made up, like a prototype Starfleet armour or something. Oh, and Hazerd suits could be used, I mean they are cannon...sort of...

Yeah, I never understood why people didn't change out of their bright red uniforms before going on highly dangerous commando missions in TOS and TNG (that's why red shirts got slaughtered, I guess). They did have black stealth suits in TNG Chain of Command but this game should have battle armor as well, as long as it's not the horribly dorky security uniforms from the TMP films.

I really like the idea of being on an away mission as a Starfleet officer and suddenly getting caught in a firefight, and finding a dead Klingon soldier and putting on his armor.